The underlying causes of sleep apnea

[Julie]

I disagree that your IQ plummets, though your cognition may be clouded by tiredness so that you perform badly at times, even many times. I also wonder how well tested you (or others) may be for many other conditions that can mimic OSA, especially if you're relatively young. You have chosen to believe your apnea sprung full blown on the day you noticed it, refusing to acknowledge that it could well have been around for much longer, so have closed your mind to other possibilities, and there's no point in trying to convince you otherwise.

[Krelvin]

I definitely had sleep apnea when I was in my 20's. I took 20+ years to get it diagnosed though and my Dr at that time was reluctant to refer me for a study. Study showed I had severe OSA.

Almost 8 years before I got my study, a heart surgeon stated during a angioplasty procedure that I was showing signs of sleep apnea right there in the lab. Person monitoring my vitals kept telling me to wakeup, Dr finally said just let him sleep, if I need him I will wake him up, the monitor said every time he falls asleep his spo2 drops.

[Therapist]

I definitely had sleep apnea when I was in my 20's.

What is the condition and count of your teeth?

I have 28 erupted teeth. Two wisdom teeth were extracted in my twenties, one is totally impacted today and the fourth one never developed.

Thanks for reporting this.

[Krelvin]

I definitely had sleep apnea when I was in my 20's.

What is the condition and count of your teeth?

Had braces when I was a kid, 2 wisdom teeth pulled and have no impacted teeth.

[tiredandscared]

I disagree that your IQ plummets, though your cognition may be clouded by tiredness so that you perform badly at times, even many times..

The iq of normally gifted children with severe obstructive apnea is 1.5 standards deviation below the norm. So it definitely does lower your cognitive performance, severely. It can even cause lesions and damage in the brain, especially if your nadir is below 80% or if it goes untreated for a very long time. Some of which is irreversible. Unless you're in a gifted range. You're going to notice. Personally I feel like i'm working 50-60% of my previous cognitive ability. On good days, maybe 70. But i'm nowhere near, where I was. Even if most of my ability is intact. Honestly feels like I've lost 20 iq points.

I also wonder how well tested you (or others) may be for many other conditions that can mimic OSA, especially if you're relatively young. .

I'm not sure, I suspect low-testosterone, depression and environmental illness/chemical sensitivities also playing a role. But i'm yet to address them.

You have chosen to believe your apnea sprung full blown on the day you noticed it, refusing to acknowledge that it could well have been around for much longer, so have closed your mind to other possibilities, and there's no point in trying to convince you otherwise.

It doesn't spring up on one day. As you progressively gain weight, you start adding more and more fat into the fat cells in the throat. You might not notice it immediately, but eventually you come to a weight where, it starts obstructing your airway at night. It's not like "AHA". More like a gradual decline over a few weeks to a month as you gain weight. It doesn't take 5 years to decades to notice though.

[zoocrewphoto]

They say that half the people over 50 have "Mild" sleep apnea or borderline sleep apnea. But that doesn't apply to my demograph. I'd say less than 10% of people between 18-30 have sleep apnea. Can you imagine how bad people's test scores and academic performance would be if most had sleep apnea? Sleep apnea has basically put me in a learning disabled condition. I can barely do math, and my working memory is shot.

In another thread, you listed the symptoms you experience. I only had one item on your list. Fatigue. I did not have the memory or cognitive issues that you refer to at any level that would be noticeable. Most of my symptoms were ignored due to misplaced blame. The extra bathroom trips didn't seem important since I have more daytime bathroom trips than most people. The headaches were usually only 2-3 times a month, and I blamed them on caffiene withdrawal and weather changes. I still have the weather headaches, but most of the other headaches were actually sleep apnea. I had no idea they were connected. I never considered myself grumpy though my sister accused me of it. After a couple weeks on cpap, I realized I felt more cheerful. The nightmares were about being chased, not drowning, so I never considered a breathing issue. I thought it was stress.

Anyway in my case the sleep apnea is relatively mild. I only get problems if i sleep supine during rem sleep. Which will cause an AHI that dips int 87-86, briefly(8 seconds). If i sleep in a poor position, i'll get dips into 90-89(this happens when I sleep on the floor). If I lost 20 pounds, the problem would likely go away entirely.

I suspect you are referring to oxygen desatuation, not ahi. You might improve with weight loss. You might not. Some people need more pressure. Make sure you get a new sleep study.

[DeadlySleep]

Personally I feel like i'm working 50-60% of my previous cognitive ability. On good days, maybe 70. But i'm nowhere near, where I was. Even if most of my ability is intact. Honestly feels like I've lost 20 iq points.

So we should not trust anything you are saying?

[zoocrewphoto]

Highly unlikely.. it might be mistaken for depression(one of the "go-to diagnosis" for incompetent doctors who don't want investigate further) or insomnia. But go unnoticed? I doubt it. Your IQ plummets, at best people will assume you have some form of Attention deficit disorder, unless you're highly gifted and somehow compensate with cognitive reserve.[/quote]


Just because it took a cognitive issue for you to notice your sleep apnea, does not mean that others have that problem. I was diagnosed at age 39 with a clear history of sleep apnea from my late 20s. I never felt like I had trouble thinking. Math is no problem for me. I helped home school my nephew, and I use math on a daily basis at work. Until I started treatment, my only perception of a problem was getting yelled at for snoring. I knew I had sleep apnea and ignored because I thought it just meant less sleep, and I was getting by just fine. I only went in for diagnosis and treatment because I learned that it was the likely cause of my high blood pressure, and I didn't want to set myself up for a heart attack or stroke.

[tiredandscared]

Personally I feel like i'm working 50-60% of my previous cognitive ability. On good days, maybe 70. But i'm nowhere near, where I was. Even if most of my ability is intact. Honestly feels like I've lost 20 iq points.

So we should not trust anything you are saying?

No because, I've still got my analytical ability in-tact, even if my short-term memory is somewhat impaired, and I have a hard-time retaining new information.

Just because it took a cognitive issue for you to notice your sleep apnea, does not mean that others have that problem. I was diagnosed at age 39 with a clear history of sleep apnea from my late 20s. I never felt like I had trouble thinking. Math is no problem for me. I helped home school my nephew, and I use math on a daily basis at work. Until I started treatment, my only perception of a problem was getting yelled at for snoring. I knew I had sleep apnea and ignored because I thought it just meant less sleep, and I was getting by just fine. I only went in for diagnosis and treatment because I learned that it was the likely cause of my high blood pressure, and I didn't want to set myself up for a heart attack or stroke.

what was your nadir oxygen desaturation during your polysomnography? And how many oxygen desaturations did you have?

[zoocrewphoto]

what was your nadir oxygen desaturation during your polysomnography? And how many oxygen desaturations did you have?

I did a split night study, so only 2 1/2 hours of diagnosis. I never reached deep sleep or REM, so my ahi of 79 is probably lower than what a full night would produce. My events were shorter, so my oxygen didn't go down as much. My lowest desat was 84, and I spent most of the night in the low 90s. For me, it is more about destroying my sleep cycles and constantly disturbing my sleep. I was having more than one event per minute, so I was basically in a light sleep all night and not getting restoring sleep. My mom is completely different. Much lower ahi, but worse desats due to much longer events.

You can see in the sleep study graph that there is a huge difference between my sleep in the diagnosis phase and with the cpap. I was amazed at how much better I felt the next day. And the next night, at home without cpap, I had a dream that I would have to wait 6 months to get my cpap machine, and I was angry. Even in my sleep, my brain knew how much of an improvement that 5 hours with a cpap machine had made. It was only over the next few months that I learned how much was affected by my sleep apnea. It was shocking how many things have improved. As for my weight, I am about 10 pounds higher than I was 3 years ago when I was diagnosed. But I feel a lot better than back then.

[tiredandscared]

what was your nadir oxygen desaturation during your polysomnography? And how many oxygen desaturations did you have?

I did a split night study, so only 2 1/2 hours of diagnosis. I never reached deep sleep or REM, so my ahi of 79 is probably lower than what a full night would produce. My events were shorter, so my oxygen didn't go down as much. My lowest desat was 84, and I spent most of the night in the low 90s. For me, it is more about destroying my sleep cycles and constantly disturbing my sleep. I was having more than one event per minute, so I was basically in a light sleep all night and not getting restoring sleep. My mom is completely different. Much lower ahi, but worse desats due to much longer events.

You can see in the sleep study graph that there is a huge difference between my sleep in the diagnosis phase and with the cpap. I was amazed at how much better I felt the next day. And the next night, at home without cpap, I had a dream that I would have to wait 6 months to get my cpap machine, and I was angry. Even in my sleep, my brain knew how much of an improvement that 5 hours with a cpap machine had made. It was only over the next few months that I learned how much was affected by my sleep apnea. It was shocking how many things have improved. As for my weight, I am about 10 pounds higher than I was 3 years ago when I was diagnosed. But I feel a lot better than back then.

what was your nadir oxygen desaturation during your polysomnography? And how many oxygen desaturations did you have?

Basically very high AHI with mild-moderate dessturations. Which explains why you weren't impaired. Im somewhat better off with brief desaturations into 88-86 ( 1-2 time event) lastning a few seconds and small dips into the 90-89 3 times a night. spent maybe 0.2% below 90%. I Dont feel rested unless i spend 95% above 95%