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General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.

Opinions/Experience re the ZEO?

I purchased a Zeo and believe it is a great product with useful data output.
23
28%
I purchased a Zeo and think it is just so-so.
8
9%
I purchased a Zeo and don't like it.
5
6%
I am considering purchasing a Zeo.
24
29%
I have no interest in purchasing a Zeo.
11
13%
I don't know what a Zeo is.
11
13%
 
Total votes : 82

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edm_msu
 
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Re: Opinions/Experience re the ZEO?

Postby edm_msu on Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:27 am

I'd rather analyze my data myself and not send it to Zeo. Is this possible? Wouldn't it be easier for Zeo to release software instead of analyzing many people's data?
Thanks,
Ed M.

_________________
Machine: S9 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: Like SleepyHead software better. CMS-50F Oximeter

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Jay Aitchsee
 
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Re: Opinions/Experience re the ZEO?

Postby Jay Aitchsee on Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:55 am

Zeo has made the data from the bedside unit available to anyone without using their site. Maxdarkside is one example. Explore the Zeo site for methods to unencrypt data card and programs to view your data directly.

Using Zeo's web based program, however, IMO, is much easier and more polished. I haven't tried, but I think you could export the unencrypted data directly into sleepyhead. You could also write your own programs to analyze the data.

_________________
Machine: S9 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine
Mask: Simplus Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: P=9.0-11.0, ResScan 5.1 SleepyHead, Windows 7, S8 Autoset II, ACR38U-BMC-R, ZEO, CMS50E, Infrared Video

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BasementDwellingGeek
 
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Re: Opinions/Experience re the ZEO?

Postby BasementDwellingGeek on Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:16 am

There is a firmware update that allows the Zeo to not encrypt its data. http://zeorawdata.sourceforge.net/starting.html

There is also an available library http://sourceforge.net/projects/zeorawdata/files/RDL2.0/ that includes a utility to convert the Zeo native data to an ascii file. There appears to be a GUI_Viewer.zip a the same location that I have not investigated.

I use this command line :
java -jar ZeoDataDecoder.jar i:\zeo\zeosleep.dat > ZeoData.txt
to produce a record for each night with a bunch of info about the Zeo configuration, headband info, nighty and average stats and two hypnograms. The display hypnogram is the same 5 minute data seen on the front pane display. The base_hypnogram is a finer grained 30 second epoch. The characters . = unknown state, w =awake, r = REM, l = light sleep, L = deep sleep, d = a deeper sleep. I use the base_hypnogram in my home grown application.

hypnogram_start_time = 2012-04-09 T 22:25:00 (1334010300)
base_hypnogram_count = 1007
base_hypnogram = ............rrrrrrrrrrrllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllrrlllllllllllllllllllllwwwrrlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllLLllllllllllrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllwwwwwwwwwwlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllLrrrLlllllrrwwwwlrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrlllrrrrllllllllllrr..........wwwwwwwwwwwwwrrrlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrwwrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrwrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrwwwwwwwwwwrrrrrrrlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllwwwwLlllrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwLlllllLLLLLLrrrrrLwwrrLwrrrrwww
display_hypnogram_count = 100
display hypnogram = .rlllllllwllllllllllllrrrrrrrrllllllllwwwllllrrrlllllwwllllllwrrrllwwwllllllrrwrrrwrwwlllllllwrwwwdw

You can also hook into the jack on the back panel and get real-time data. More work than I wanted to undertake.

_________________
Machine: S9 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine
Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: own home grown SW to make it all work together, SH too.
bdg
(PR System One REMstar Pro CPAP Machine with C-Flex Plus and related humidifier as backup)

There are two types of people in this world. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete data

kong
 
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Re: Opinions/Experience re the ZEO?

Postby kong on Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:35 pm

I have not purchased a Zeo. I have a hard time figuring out what use I could make of a machine whose manufacturer claims it's only correct 75-80 percent of the time. The machine would give information, but I wouldn't be able to rely on it.

I see that there are many satisfied users.
Dx: Severe Obstructive Sleep Apnea, AHI 68.
Machine: SleepStyle 254 Auto CPAP Machine with Built In Heated Humidifier.
Mask: ResMed Mirage Quattro Full Face Mask or TAP-PAP.
Software: Fisher & Paykel Performance Maximizer.
Pressure: 12 cm.

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MaxDarkside
 
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Re: Opinions/Experience re the ZEO?

Postby MaxDarkside on Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:22 pm

kong wrote:I have not purchased a Zeo. I have a hard time figuring out what use I could make of a machine whose manufacturer claims it's only correct 75-80 percent of the time. The machine would give information, but I wouldn't be able to rely on it.

Things that are not precisely accurate can still be very useful. A butter knife is not a surgeon's scalpel, but I find them handy. The Zeo is accurate enough to give you a reasonably reliable insight into something you probably cannot otherwise see... Something that happens when the lights are out and you are not paying attention... Your sleep. You can see your "sleep stages" (Wake, REM, Deep, Light) and what follows from that... your "sleep architecture"; how your sleep stages are structured. It gives a "Sleep Score" that also is not perfect but is useful and generally follows how I feel, how well rested I am the next day. I use the Zeo as but one "channel" of information to see into my sleep and with it and other "channels" I have been able to make improvements in my sleep, my performance, my health. For this reason I use mine every night.

_________________
Machine: S9 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine
Mask: Quattro™ FX Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: CMS-50E Oximeter, Zeo Bedside, Software: Comm'l grade AI analytics server & tools & SleepyHead
Do or Die... Sleep Apnea killed me, but I came back. Click for my story
Please visit my My Apnea Analytics blog. Maybe we can help each other.
54 yrs, 6' 1", 160->172 lbs

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tschultz
 
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Re: Opinions/Experience re the ZEO?

Postby tschultz on Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:30 am

kong wrote:I have not purchased a Zeo. I have a hard time figuring out what use I could make of a machine whose manufacturer claims it's only correct 75-80 percent of the time. The machine would give information, but I wouldn't be able to rely on it.


At 75-80% correct over a number of nights I believe it is every bit as useful, if not more so, than a single night's sleep study in a strange environment. I have used my Zeo nightly since I got it in December and have not been disappointed. Sure, it is not perfect, but has been very helpful.

With the help of Zeo I have been able to determine that even with my AHI being under 1 most nights that I am still not getting a good nights sleep. The Zeo data combined with the CPAP, over a few months now, is allowing me to better determine what does, or does not, have an impact on my sleep. No single night's data tell much, but if you look at trends you can quickly see what's going on, and when you change something you can see what the impact is over the next few nights.

Now I just wish there was an easy fix for sleep problems ...

_________________
Machine: S9 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine
Mask: Mirage™ SoftGel Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: Currenlty using Auto 15-20, EPR 1 with medium response; 95% pressure is 16.8
Adjusting to life with OSA and being pressurized each night ...

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edm_msu
 
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Re: Opinions/Experience re the ZEO?

Postby edm_msu on Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:49 am

tschultz,
Another poster said that he is better off when AHI is not as low as possible. A higher pressure was needed for the lowest AHI number and that disturbed his sleep. He slept better with a lower pressure that still gave AHI < 5.
Ed M.

_________________
Machine: S9 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: Like SleepyHead software better. CMS-50F Oximeter

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MaxDarkside
 
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Re: Opinions/Experience re the ZEO?

Postby MaxDarkside on Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:19 am

edm_msu wrote:Another poster said that he is better off when AHI is not as low as possible. A higher pressure was needed for the lowest AHI number and that disturbed his sleep. He slept better with a lower pressure that still gave AHI < 5.

I know I've said that, yes. I "de-tuned" my APAP therapy a bit and got a better night sleep. Less "face farts", air in the gut, gopher cheeks and now I notice that unless I go on my back during REM, my ResMed does not "auto-up" to max anymore. My Zeo sleep scores shot up and I feel more rested.

_________________
Machine: S9 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine
Mask: Quattro™ FX Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: CMS-50E Oximeter, Zeo Bedside, Software: Comm'l grade AI analytics server & tools & SleepyHead
Do or Die... Sleep Apnea killed me, but I came back. Click for my story
Please visit my My Apnea Analytics blog. Maybe we can help each other.
54 yrs, 6' 1", 160->172 lbs

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tschultz
 
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Re: Opinions/Experience re the ZEO?

Postby tschultz on Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:24 am

edm_msu wrote:tschultz,
Another poster said that he is better off when AHI is not as low as possible. A higher pressure was needed for the lowest AHI number and that disturbed his sleep. He slept better with a lower pressure that still gave AHI < 5.
Ed M.


In my case I have lowered the pressure and if I drop the minimum below 15 then my AHI raises like crazy and I feel like crap.
I had no deep sleep in my sleep study, but with an AHI of 119 during the study I never got to sleep well enough to get out of light sleep.

I have found a few things that are helping but it is slow process, of a somewhat educated trial end error process; make one change and monitor data over a few night and move on to the next, each step learning a bit more about what help or does not.

_________________
Machine: S9 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine
Mask: Mirage™ SoftGel Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: Currenlty using Auto 15-20, EPR 1 with medium response; 95% pressure is 16.8
Adjusting to life with OSA and being pressurized each night ...

shb
 
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Location: Brisbane, Australia
Gender: Male

Re: Opinions/Experience re the ZEO?

Postby shb on Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:11 pm

Email cut/paste from ZEO support department - seems relevant to the discussion above (eg edm_msu)

-----------
Hi Shb,
Thanks for your request to access your data without uploading. We recently released two options: The Zeo Raw Data Library and the Zeo Data Decoder Library.

The Zeo Raw Data Library (http://blog.myzeo.com/zeo-raw-data-library-free-your-mind/) uses the serial port on the back of Zeo to pump out two very cool things: Your sleep phase in real time (Wake, REM, Light, Deep every 30 seconds) and your brainwaves!
The Data Decoder Library (http://blog.myzeo.com/accouncing-the-zeo-data-decoder-library/) is a special version of Zeo Bedside Display software that places decrypted data on the SD card, plus a Java decoder to further interpret that data and output a CSV file.

It is an Alpha release for hackers and developers – it’s not meant for everyday consumer use.
Unfortunately, at this time, there is no compatibility between the Zeo Mobile app and the Raw Data Library. However, this feature is currently undergoing consideration for future updates to the app.
Please let us know if you have any further questions!
Sleep Well,

Kevin
Customer Care Representative
ZEO, INC

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chunkyfrog
 
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Re: Opinions/Experience re the ZEO?

Postby chunkyfrog on Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:13 pm

Cool!
Thanks!

_________________
Machine: AirSense™ 10 AutoSet For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
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Uncle_Bob
 
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Re: Opinions/Experience re the ZEO?

Postby Uncle_Bob on Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:06 pm

i have the bedside unit and am a bit disappointed in the lack of alarm tunes you can choose from.

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Lizistired
 
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Re: Opinions/Experience re the ZEO?

Postby Lizistired on Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:15 pm

Uncle_Bob wrote:i have the bedside unit and am a bit disappointed in the lack of alarm tunes you can choose from.

Yes, I wish it had a radio so I could set it to NPR. I always dozed back off listening to it before but it would be cool if the zeo would increase the volume when I should wake up. :)

_________________
Machine: S9 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine
Mask: Swift™ LT Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: Swift FX sometimes, CMS-50F, Cervical collar sometimes, White noise, Zeo... I'm not well, but I'm better.

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edm_msu
 
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Re: Opinions/Experience re the ZEO?

Postby edm_msu on Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:52 am

shb,
Thanks for the links, that is what I had in mind.

MaxDarkside,
Many questions for you (or anybody else).
How did the de-tuning go? Is this a good idea for most of us? Would you try it without the Zeo? How hard was it and how long did it take to optimize the pressure, AHI, and "sleep quality"? What was your pressure, AHI, and "sleep quality" before you detuned? What was your pressure, AHI, and "sleep quality" after you detuned?

What are the benefits of getting your Zeo data real time through the cable? How is this better than downloading the data from the SD card? Wouldn't the data be the same? Since you're asleep, how does real time data help because you won't see it until after you wake up in the morning anyways?

Thanks,
Ed M.

_________________
Machine: S9 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: Like SleepyHead software better. CMS-50F Oximeter

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MaxDarkside
 
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Re: Opinions/Experience re the ZEO?

Postby MaxDarkside on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:50 am

edm_msu wrote:How did the de-tuning go? Is this a good idea for most of us? Would you try it without the Zeo? How hard was it and how long did it take to optimize the pressure, AHI, and "sleep quality"? What was your pressure, AHI, and "sleep quality" before you detuned? What was your pressure, AHI, and "sleep quality" after you detuned?

I would say taking control of your xPAP therapy is a personal decision, best with the consult of your sleep doctor. He gave me the all-clear after I showed him the data I had, and I talked to him about it and he knew I understood how to personally manage it.

In the beginning, my pressures were 5-15 cm H2O, nearly wide open, because the Dr. didn't know the cause of my apnea nor did we do a "titration study". He had some faith in the machine, I think. Later, I had to see a pulmonologist regarding increasing centrals. They wanted me at 10-20 cm H2O range. I tried a max of 20, but it was a NO-GO. I could not tolerate it, physically, and it destroyed my ability to sleep. So, I went back to 5-15. I started to have clusters of apneas and I think it was Pugsy that suggested raising the minimum. Since I was used to the machine, I was able to increase the minimum gradually to 7.4 cm and it helped but then I got gopher cheeks right away as I went to sleep so I backed it off a bit to 7.0 and started using a mask liner. That helped a lot. Now I don't even notice the mask as I doze off. I then tried easing off my max to avoid disturbing my sleep when the machine went to max. That helped too. So, right now I'm 7-14 and doing well.

What are the benefits of getting your Zeo data real time through the cable? How is this better than downloading the data from the SD card? Wouldn't the data be the same? Since you're asleep, how does real time data help because you won't see it until after you wake up in the morning anyways?

I get more detail with the individual brainwaves I collect from the hacked Bedside. I can see where the Zeo classifies some Deep as something else, but with the individual waves I can tell it is more like Deep. Since it is real-time and I can do things with our software in real-time, in theory I could have our software do something during the night while I sleep, like wake me up and alert me to some condition, though I haven't. So, the biggest benefit is more detail and a better view of reality, rather than an attempt to do a man-made interpretation of sleep stages. You see, there is no such thing in nature as discrete classifications, but a continuous process that our brains go through during sleep. Sleep stages are a man-made construct to try to interpret a natural continuous function.

Look at the chart below and look at the "doughnut holes". Only a part of the first is classified as "Deep", but I know that there is some mind/brain process going on during that entire period of the "hole", easing into it, easing out of it, not "snap... hey, you are in Deep!... Snap! Hey, you are in Light!" No, that's not the way Nature works. Later, another "hole" appears and I know (or guess) that is a similar process going on, but to a lesser degree, but hey, the Zeo classification says that is "light and REM", but really I can see the truth better with the waves.

Image

_________________
Machine: S9 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine
Mask: Quattro™ FX Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: CMS-50E Oximeter, Zeo Bedside, Software: Comm'l grade AI analytics server & tools & SleepyHead
Do or Die... Sleep Apnea killed me, but I came back. Click for my story
Please visit my My Apnea Analytics blog. Maybe we can help each other.
54 yrs, 6' 1", 160->172 lbs

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