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General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.

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Snorebert
 
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Are you ready for more Snake Oil sales pitches?

Postby Snorebert on Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:45 pm

Over the last year, in addition to tending to my CPAP therapy, I have also been following reports in the media regarding OSA. I have Google alerts set and follow postings on this forum as well as others. It may be simply a case of being more attuned to the subject but it seems to me that there is more and more buzz in the mainstream media regarding sleep apnea. I got to thinking that as sleep apnea awareness increases, the number of people trying to cash in on it will as well.

I saw this posting last night http://www.rtmagazine.com/news/2009-11-16_01.asp suggesting that the market for OSA diagnostic testing is ready for a dramatic increase, mostly due to medicare policy changes.

Weather or not this is true, I can't help but think that we will also start seeing more and more miracle cures for OSA on the internet, in spam and in the back pages of the TV guide. With hot button issues like "stop feeling tired", "lose weight", "better love life", and "lower cholesterol and blood pressure", who wouldn't buy the miracle "Xo-Snore Health orb" for only three payments of $19.98 that, once sewn into the back of your pajamas, will encourage a sleeping posture scientifically proven to reduce snoring and breathing problems?

I suppose these snake oil solutions have always been around. But when they get louder, the message about real therapies that really work gets diluted. I suppose that one thing that we can do on this forum is to continue to report back to the crowd on any new product that we have tried as has been done many times in the past.

Just thinking....
There are two rules of life. The first is don't tell everything that you know.

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dsm
 
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Re: Are you ready for more Snake Oil sales pitches?

Postby dsm on Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:02 pm

Snorebert

I too have been thinking that OSA is going to develop a much bigger wave of awareness. I agree to that as that happens the floodgates may open for the 'opportunists' to try to 'cash-in'.

One view (which may be very simplistic, (or not)) is that if a significant portion of the world's population were to come to the conclusion they can live a lot longer by using a variant of CPAP machine to keep respiration working effectively at night, lets say by 5-10 years or better, then CPAP therapy may come to be viewed as that elusive 'fountain of youth' that we humans have been searching for since we realized we were mortal.

I would add in that if we include a good exercise regime, then I can believe we could live longer on average.

Interesting line of thought :)

DSM
(08mar2010 reverted to BiPap AutoSV (unable to fix mask leaks on AdaptSV)
Bipap AutoSV Epap=10 IpapMin=14 IpapMax=20 BPM=Auto rt=3
Vpap Adapt SV EEP=9.4 PS=3.6
Quattro mask

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cinco777
 
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Re: Are you ready for more Snake Oil sales pitches?

Postby cinco777 on Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:08 pm

I remember the newspaper, magazine, and comic book ads (long before the Internet) for the universally adaptable, remarkably easy to install, fully adjustable, easily moved Coat Hanger. I think the price was around $10 + S&H.

What people received in the mail was a long nail. I remember reading that the nail was a shiny one! :lol:

I have already seen examples of the marketing of OSA aids that are just as creative (and deceiving) as the "coat hanger" nail.

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dsm
 
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Re: Are you ready for more Snake Oil sales pitches?

Postby dsm on Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:22 pm

Just on another associated theme. It seems to me that the vendor that can either ...

1) produce a broad spectrum self titrating machine
or
2) a machine that can (using advanced computer analytics) adapt to broad spectrum requirements (OSA CA CSR etc: )

is going to do extremely well in this growing market.

If a broad spectrum machine were made available it would leave the medical profession more time to focus on the exceptional cases.
From a conceptual POV the machine that strikes me as currently close to #1 above with broad spectrum analysis capability is the Weinmann SOMNOset
http://www.weinmann.de/index.php?id=311&L=1

also the cpap machine addressing #2 would look a lot like Weinmann's SOMNOvent CR
http://www.weinmann.de/en/homecare/sleep_therapy/somnovent_cr0/


The SOMNOset is claimed to be able to accurately detect OSA as well as Central events including OSA hypopneas & Central hypopneas.

The SOMNOvent CR as best as I could work out has three pressures: ipap, epap & eepap - eepap is the final pressure at end exhalation ...

1) Can dynamically adjust its eepap in response to OSA events (just like a good Auto) thus addressing OSA dynamically
2) Can dynamically adjust its ipap in response to periodic or irregular breathing patterns and thus adapt to some periodic breathing & hypopneas
3) can quickly move its two pressures (epap & ipap) apart to handle detected Centrals (which can be one phase of CSR)
4) When it detects CSR waxing phase it adjusts both epap and ipap towards each other to normalize breathing (can dynamically become a cpap)
(CSR = Cheynes-Stokes Respiration which is a form of Periodic Breathing)

I have no idea how good the machine is in real world use but the way it works is quite amazing and thus is to me an example of what
smart manufacturers can achieve & thus an example of what is to come. I have seen a Respironics patent that appears to cover the Bipap AutoSV having the epap adjusted like an Auto, so am sure the other manufacturers are probably close behind the SOMNOvent CR with their own broad spectrum therapy machines)

DSM
Last edited by dsm on Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
(08mar2010 reverted to BiPap AutoSV (unable to fix mask leaks on AdaptSV)
Bipap AutoSV Epap=10 IpapMin=14 IpapMax=20 BPM=Auto rt=3
Vpap Adapt SV EEP=9.4 PS=3.6
Quattro mask

harry33
 
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Re: Are you ready for more Snake Oil sales pitches?

Postby harry33 on Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:04 pm

the sleep disorders docs and staff should be soon looking for other jobs, perhaps? :oops:
australian,anxiety and insomnia, a CPAP user since 1995, self diagnosed after years of fatigue, 2 cheap CPAPs and respironics comfortgell nose only mask. not one of my many doctors ever asked me if I snored

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dsm
 
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Re: Are you ready for more Snake Oil sales pitches?

Postby dsm on Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:19 pm

harry33 wrote:the sleep disorders docs and staff should be soon looking for other jobs, perhaps? :oops:


LOL

Never :) :) :)

But the notion of broad spectrum devices does hint that way :) :)

DSM
(08mar2010 reverted to BiPap AutoSV (unable to fix mask leaks on AdaptSV)
Bipap AutoSV Epap=10 IpapMin=14 IpapMax=20 BPM=Auto rt=3
Vpap Adapt SV EEP=9.4 PS=3.6
Quattro mask

Slinky
 
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Re: Are you ready for more Snake Oil sales pitches?

Postby Slinky on Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:30 pm

Ach, I must be a pessimistic skeptic. What I foresee w/all this awareness of OSA being touted is more and more "doctors" jumping on the cash cow bandwagon, hurriedly getting their "accredidation and hanging out their shingle as a sleep "specialist". What could be more enticing than a sub-specialty that requires little time invested in seeing patients? Little time to evaluate test results and send off a script or recommendation to some other doctor or to some local DME supplier, and other than a 30 day followup, be done w/each patient???
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Snorebert
 
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Re: Are you ready for more Snake Oil sales pitches?

Postby Snorebert on Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:38 pm

DSM,
You put a decidedly positive spin on my otherwise curmudgeonly comments. Indeed the glass can be half full in that with greater awareness comes the potential for more investment into R&D for sleep problems. I remember some 15 years ago when I first decided that I could not tolerate the CPAP. And the UPPP had minimal effect. My doc told me that he just had no other alternatives to suggest but perhaps in another ten years, medical science would have a solution for me.

Now I have an auto-adjusting, humidified data capable CPAP with a feather-light nasal cushion mask. Improvement - yes, because it is working for me but nowhere near the progress made on so may other scientific fronts in the same decade and a half. Perhaps we will need to tolerate the snake oil to get to the good stuff.

In the mean time, I'm still waiting for that new coat hanger that I ordered from that nice fellow on TV late the other night :-)
There are two rules of life. The first is don't tell everything that you know.

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dsm
 
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Re: Are you ready for more Snake Oil sales pitches?

Postby dsm on Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:43 pm

Slinky wrote:Ach, I must be a pessimistic skeptic. What I foresee w/all this awareness of OSA being touted is more and more "doctors" jumping on the cash cow bandwagon, hurriedly getting their "accredidation and hanging out their shingle as a sleep "specialist". What could be more enticing than a sub-specialty that requires little time invested in seeing patients? Little time to evaluate test results and send off a script or recommendation to some other doctor or to some local DME supplier, and other than a 30 day followup, be done w/each patient???


Slinky

Amen :) :) :)

DSM

Am seeing that happen directly
(08mar2010 reverted to BiPap AutoSV (unable to fix mask leaks on AdaptSV)
Bipap AutoSV Epap=10 IpapMin=14 IpapMax=20 BPM=Auto rt=3
Vpap Adapt SV EEP=9.4 PS=3.6
Quattro mask


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