3rd Sleep Study- No REM, no Deep Sleep- Nothing's simple

Some of you might remember that I was going to have a third sleep study to rule out Central Apneas since, after 5 months of APAP therapy I had GAINED 15 pounds in the first 3 months, was still sleepy when driving, although I had had lower blood pressure, no more nighttime bathroom trips, no more hot flashes or night sweats and was generally feeling much better than when I started, but things were definitely WEIRD.

This afternoon I received the results of that third sleep study. Although I slept most of the hours logged, I had NO REMs and no stage 3 or 4. I was accidentally taking 3 times the prescribed amount of Neurontin which should have induced stage 3/4 sleep (new Rx and they didn't tell me it was 300 mg when I had been on 3 of the 100 mg before). But I had no centrals. During my other sleep studies I had had REMs but only about 5% stage 3/4 sleep and that while I was on Gabitril. They switched me to Neurontin to try and get me more stage 3/4.

They suspect now this is why after 6 months of APAP I am not losing weight nor being able to do without Focalin to drive more than an hour.

I am now scheduled to go on a drug for Narcolepsy that is also recently being used successfully for sleep apnea called Xprem. It is a liquid taken at bedtime (in bed it is so potent) and you take another dose 2 1/2 hours to 4 hours later. This is supposed to be THE drug that will guarantee deep sleep.

And going back to my "episode" when I "fell asleep" without being drowsy and had my wreck, they noticed I have not had an EEG to test for Narcolepsy so I am now scheduled for that on the 13th.

Maybe things like this are why so many don't get the results they expect from CPAP therapy and without further sleep tests that will show these things they go on feeling lousy.

I urge all of you are not getting anywhere or not feeling as well as you did or still not feeling well after many months or years to talk to your sleep dr. about another test. Seems like OSA can get very complicated and it is these little things that some of us have that can make a big difference in our treatment results.

Liam, maybe this would apply to you, too.

I'm confused (nothing new there! )

The study where you had no REM sleep - was that the sleep latency test or a standard sleep study?

I too had no REM sleep during the MSLT, but can't remember the rest of the stats from it.

And I wholly agree that there are other , albeit more costly, tests that we should all be given- especially when we are still having problems after 6 months or even after one month. So many potetially critical things could be happening to us without us being aware of it.

Let me add the ABG study - PROPERLY ADMINISTERED - to your list.

(sounds like they're really drugging you up!... and getting up in the middle of the night will help you to sleep through the night? So if you sleep through the time when you're supposed to take the second dose... let me think here... it isn't working???)

- JB

- JB

this was a second "titration" study using my own Swift mask.

You take the Xprem in bed. If you wake up and it is at least 2 1/2 hours since the first dose, you take the second (in bed) you do not get up. If you don't wake up you don't need to take the second dose but it is better if you do 4 hours after the first dose.

After what I've read of the ABG test on this forum, I don't think that's on my immediate To Do list.

Nah.. They just weren't prepared and were in the middle of movin in to some new quarters. Like I said, she forgot to cnacel my appointment. I'm sure the next one will be smoother. I have a friend who has had 4 of these, each one different. All of hers were overnighters , but one of them, the person doing the sampling chose to do a stick every hour, but didn't want to turn on a light & disturb her. Hence she could never find the artery. After the third try, my friend was totally unable to sleep and lleft the building... at 1 AM!! <LOL>

These people need... NEED to learn how to do this stuff!
- JB

You know Neurontin is an anti-convulsant. There is no clinical data on it for sleep. Whatever they are telling you about it is pure conjecture. Do some research on this drug. It's used "off-label" for everything from bi-polar to shingles to chronic pain to sleep disorders. But there has never been any research on this drug for these things. So I'd be careful about this and make sure your drugs aren't making things worse for you. I took it for a while and gave up because of all the horrible side-effects. The drug companies will do anything to get doctors to sell their meds. I'm not anti-med. I just think we should all be prudent and not listen just to what the doctor says on this. Your doctor is being bribed by the drug companies. It sounds like things are rough for you though and I hope and pray you find an answer.

Once I start the Xyrem I'll be off the neurontin. I feel like I sleep pretty good most nights, but some days I wake up and don't really feel that rested. I know I am normally getting REM sleep because I am dreaming, so I think that particular study was not normal in that respect.

I think I am just lucky to have a Dr. and a PA who are concerned enough about treating the patient to do all they can to make sure the patient is getting what they need to solve the problem. How many would go beyond prescribing the CPAP and sending you on your way with maybe a followup a year later?

Yes I agree, most MD's won't give you the time of day. So you are blessed to find a doctor who's willing to help!