Different results with Breeze v Mirage Vista

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:07 am

I've been using the Mirage Vista for about 5 months with good results, but thought I should join the multiple-mask club so recently purchased the Breeze (using the XL pillows).

I've now been using the Breeze for a week, so this might not yet be statistically significant, but my weekly download (I'm a Remstar auto/card reader/encore pro user) has thrown up quite a marked difference in results.

Average AHI with Vista = 1.3
Average AHI with Breeze = 3.0

Interestingly, the snore score has gone in the other direction
With vista = 3.3 and with Breeze = 1.9

There's no obvious change in leakage in the results.

I realise I'm still in an acceptable AHI range so nothing to really worry about. I have noticed I've been yawning during the day a bit more this week, but I've not had any of the more severe symptoms.

Have any other multiple-mask users seen a change in results with different masks?

littlebaddow · Post by **littlebaddow** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:09 am

Ooops, that was me

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:43 am

Yes, I've seen minor changes in software data AHI results depending on what mask I'm using. I feel the same each day whether the AHI was below 1 or up to 4. As you said, as long as your AHI is staying under 5, and you're feeling essentially the same (good, we hope! ) I don't see any reason to give up, say, a comfortable mask for one that's "ok" but not quite as comfy, just to try to achieve the lowest AHI possible.

As I understand it, even "normal" people, who would not be diagnosed with sleep disordered breathing if they went for a sleep study, have a few events most nights. That's why there's a cut-off point (usually 5 or below) where they are not said to have sleep apnea even if they have some random apneas/hypopneas. Those people aren't worried about getting their AHI of 4 down to 1.

Besides, in some ways the machines' software is going to mark what it sees - not necessarily what's really happening to you. For the most part, the autos get it right for most people with most masks, but those little ticks (or absence of them) that the machine tallies up to give us our AHI aren't always exact. Swirling airflow and characteristics of our breathing with one mask or another could be read wrong from time to time. No big deal unless it was the rare person/machine/mask combo that made the machine just absolutely go haywire trying to "read" the airflow.

I wouldn't worry about it as long as I felt about the same the next day, after wearing one mask or another.

I wasn't yawning until you mentioned it!

JL · Post by JL » Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:18 am

I too notice a slight difference in results between the Breeze and Activa but it seems to be mainly lower snoring with the Breeze. Perhaps the "direct" nasal pillow air flow is more effective at reducing snoring than a nasal mask for some of us???

Jim

littlebaddow · Post by **littlebaddow** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:01 pm

rested gal wrote:I wasn't yawning until you mentioned it!

The power of suggestion

Thanks RG and yes, I don't think I'll worry about it too much. I'll put up with an AHI of 3 and a few yawns as long as the brain fog and all the other symptoms don't reappear

SleepyGuy · Post by **SleepyGuy** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:30 pm

I use an Ultra Mirage Full Face mask and my AHI varies from 2 to 4.5 from night to night.

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:52 pm

Good point, SleepyGuy. My AHI varies from night to night, sometimes by several full points even with just one mask worn on consecutive nights.

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:02 pm

Well, so does mine, but LittleBadows, being the thoroug person he is, was giving us the result of a week's difference - which means he was consistently higher on the Breeze for that week... unless there was one, very exceptional bad night. (Averages are highly sensitive to vey low and very high values).

I can't say much about the mask comparison - but could it be that one's body need to get used to a change? (I'm actually doubtful...) What would happen if you did a one week switch cycle for, say, a month?

Anything else different about this one week - allergy season?
The stress (it would be for me...) of any change in your CPAP system ?
O.

IWannaSleep · Post by **IWannaSleep** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 12:19 am

I can't imagine feeling different if you're ahi varied from 1 to 3 or whatever. This seems in the noise level. Plus it seems the real test is your blood oxigenation with ahi being more a secondary measure.

I have severe SA, and have only managed to get my overall ahi to come down to between 5 and 10, but my overnight oxigenation tests have come back totally normal with oxygen % never falling below 94%.

Looking closer at my data, I can see that almost all of my events are obstructive apneas with a few hypopneas thrown in here and there. But the key is they all occur as I'm falling asleep and then again as I'm waking up. The hours inbetween remain fairly quiet. This tells me that my breathing changes, as I'm in that transition zone, in a way that my machine is interpreting as an event, but which may not actually be. But even if they are real, they are bunched at the beginning and end of the night, so I still get good sleep through most of the night.

My point really being, simply looking at ahi is only looking at part of the story, you really have to dig into the details to know if the treatment is effective for you. IMHO, AHI should only be used as a relative indicator of how well you might be doing, the truth is in the details and other more specific tests.

Ron

2listless · Post by **2listless** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:22 pm

My AHI never varies much between masks but I get a lot of pressure variance with different interfaces. I was titrated with a Nasalaire at 8. Used it 2 days, had nasal hemmorhages, ended up having surgery. Was told by ENT to never use nasal prongs again. Doctor switched me to Activa - had to keep elevating the pressure until it was at 12. On Auto, 5 - 12. Then got the Vista, pressure never elevated above 10. Now have the Comfort Curve, my pressure levels never go above 7. AHI does not get worse or better with any of them. I generally stay below 1. The snore index varies a great deal - it is worse on the Activa, best on the Vista and somewhere in the middle with the Comfort Curve. My SO tells me I do not snore, so I basically ignore the snore index because I am not certain what it is measuring. I showed no snoring on my sleep study. The greatest variance I get is on flow limitations - not sure why - but I do tend to roll over and strangle myself with the hose or end up with it under me and 3 pillows. Who knows? Sometimes I think it is just plain old nasal congestion -when the allergies act up, get more flow limitations. Personally, I have decided to stop worrying about any of it. If I ever get a download that shows my AHI shot up to 12, then I will worry about it. Right now I just want some peaceful sleep and to feel really rested!!!!!!

littlebaddow · Post by **littlebaddow** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:57 pm

2listless wrote:Personally, I have decided to stop worrying about any of it. If I ever get a download that shows my AHI shot up to 12, then I will worry about it. Right now I just want some peaceful sleep and to feel really rested!!!!!!

Now that's a philosophy I like, perhaps many of us should adopt it

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:06 pm

What's "AHI"? Been on cpap for over three years, but only have a cpap -- never tried apap; and I don't have any software or a smart enough machine to keep tabs on me.

Kluemaster · Post by **Kluemaster** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:42 am

acronym: Apnea Hypopnea Index

AHI (Apnea Hypopnea Index) is the number of apneas and hypopneas per hour. 5-20 mild, 21-50 moderate, above 50 severe

A lot of the terms people use, are put in the CPAPopedia at the bottom of each post. you can click on the AHI in the post prior to yours and it will take you to an explanation of the term.

In the case of sleepgear, it usually takes you to the item on cpap.com so that you may see the device, as well as buy it if it suites your fancy!

SleepyGuy · Post by **SleepyGuy** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:41 pm

There's something else that might affect this. I tried the Breeze but didn't like it. I have small nostrils. The Breeze effectively narrowed them even more. As a result the pressure was effectively reduced when I inhaled and increased when I exhaled. This is the opposite of what you might want.

Different results with Breeze v Mirage Vista

Different results with Breeze v Mirage Vista

AHI varying on a nightly basis

Different results for differnt masks

Re: Different results for differnt masks

Machine	Mask

Machine	Mask

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