fib and sleep apnea

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
poppypete
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fib and sleep apnea

Post by poppypete » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:45 pm

I would like some advice on whether to continue on APAP in the early hours of the morning, as it seems to trigger/interact adversely with my afib.

I can get my AHI <5 for 4-5hrs, but they go upwards of >30 if I continue using mask/machine.

My question/dilemma is simply whether I take the apnea risk without mask after a session of treatment on any particular night, and risk triggering adverse afib reaction, or is the apnea risk/treatment the priority?

What comes first, the afib or the apneas???
I have central, obstructive, and sometime experience CSRs, but these CSRs and central are much more prevalent AFTER the successful treatment period early in the night's sleep.

The effect of keeping the mask/machine on, quickens my heart apparently, and I wake with chest discomfort (which isn't a heart attack)...so I'm leaning towards NOT using...but is there anyone who may have had similar experiences?

[I take Eliquis 5mg and Metoprolol 12.5mg morning and night; and expect to undergo a cardioiversion in June.]

mesenteria
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Re: fib and sleep apnea

Post by mesenteria » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:16 pm

This is my understanding, subject to correction from much more knowledgeable members here:

Afib was a result of my OSA or CA...not sure which, perhaps both. This is what my cardiologist concluded once all other tests were conducted for me, with the polysomnography the last of the bunch. MIBI test gave me the all-clear, as did x-rays and echo-cardiogram.

AFib is considered to be a progressive disorder, so it MUST be strictly controlled. The more often you experience it, the worse it gets...as a general rule. So, if OSA/CA is the precursor AND likely progenitor, you should treat them with a big club, and be consistent.

If you were prescribed a beta blocker, they are an adrenergic antagonist medication designed to block the heart's sensitivity to epinephrine (adrenalin). My cardiologist concluded that I have what he called an irritable heart...it didn't like the gobs of adrenalin it was getting while I dealt with Revenue Canada Agency.

More than that I am not prepared to offer, but you have some really good and experienced people here who will insist upon seeing some hard evidence through sleepyhead freeware (if you can download it and get some data into your sleepyhead profile via an SD card on a suitable machine). From there, they'll straighten you out.

I wish you every success.

jefe2018
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Re: fib and sleep apnea

Post by jefe2018 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:13 am

I also have AFIB. There are now studies that show a very high correlation between AFIB and apnea. I had two ablations last year (july and Dec) and just came off the beta blockers ten days ago. I am holding steady for now with no AFIB, but I know that the one thing I can do on my end is to use CPAP. Prior to getting my ablations I was keeping a log on my AFIB and over 80% of my onset was during sleep. Apnea was my trigger. Cutting down on alcohol, especially before bed can help too. Sleep position is important too. I get lower AHI's if I am disciplined about sleeping on my side.
Others here can help you much more on how to be more successful with your CPAP therapy, so you don't get super high AHI early in the morning, but that's when a lot of people get into deep sleep, and that's when higher apneas tend to occur. Check in with another post with your charts, so others, like Pugsy can see what's up with your settings and your high apnea early in the morning. Each of us is different. I have air-gulping problems, so I had to compromise on my high setting. I know I choke off therapy at my high end of 10.4, but I am getting average monthly AHI of under 1.5, and don't get the stomach aches I used to. At that AHI, most of my apnea is central, and the machine doesn't deal with that with higher air pressure. I'd love to be under 1.0, but I am content with the balance.
I would encourage you to get help tweaking your settings so you can keep the mask on and get comfortable sleep with lower AHI. 30 is way too high for anyone, let alone AFIB.
Good luck!

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nicholasjh1
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Re: fib and sleep apnea

Post by nicholasjh1 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:21 am

You're no longer suffocating at night nor having constant adrenal fatigue... so your adrenaline is working better and causing higher heart activity. I had this issue with exercise ( with some SVT's) until I supplemented with Magnesium, which APnea sufferers are chronically short on. Pottasium and calcium also help modulate the heart issues. Also after a while... my adrenaline spikes evened out and or my body healed enough to handle them... Hope you get the same results.
Instead of Sleep apnea it should be called "Sleep deprivation, starving of oxygen, being poisoned by high CO2 levels, damaging the body and brain while it's supposed to be healing so that you constantly get worse and can never get healthy Apnea"

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: fib and sleep apnea

Post by ChicagoGranny » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:44 am

poppyoete wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:45 pm
I can get my AHI <5 for 4-5hrs, but they go upwards of >30 if I continue using mask/machine.

An AHI greater than 30 is dangerous and can definitely trigger AFIB. You need to start working with this forum to reduce that late morning AHI. If you can get the AHI down, the AFIB symptoms may subside or go away entirely.

First, which model machine and mask are you using?

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: fib and sleep apnea

Post by ChicagoGranny » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:46 am

nicholasjh1 wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:21 am
You're no longer suffocating at night nor having constant adrenal fatigue
Read his post again. His AHI is going above 30 with CPAP. He is "suffocating".

poppypete
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Re: fib and sleep apnea

Post by poppypete » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:21 pm

Thanks for these comments, in answer to my post...

Since posting, I have been taking some advice from a forum advisor on another site, with mixed results, as we twerked the settings, trying for some improvement.

My settings when the bad results led to my query were:
6 - 20 Auto; EPR On, Ramp Only, level 2

It's difficult for a newbie to know upon whom to rely, so I ran with it for a few nights, and the sleepyhead graphs show the results to some degree, of the troublesome last session on Sat/Sun 21 April...on settings 8 - 12 Auto.

Subsequently, a change to the EPR settings showed further improvement...in the length of non-disturbance...5hr 42m...with AHI 9.12 (attachments follow).

Last night's results are still not good, so I'm wondering if this forum might comment on my settings' changes...and what I might be best advised to be doing from here???

Thanks...poppyoete (should be poppypete...but how to change that now???) :?: :?: :? :?

poppypete
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Re: fib and sleep apnea

Post by poppypete » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:25 pm

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poppypete
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Re: fib and sleep apnea

Post by poppypete » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:29 pm

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poppypete
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Re: fib and sleep apnea

Post by poppypete » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:31 pm

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poppypete
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Location: Sunshine Coast

Re: fib and sleep apnea

Post by poppypete » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:33 pm

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lamar2217
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Re: fib and sleep apnea

Post by lamar2217 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:54 pm

Please see your physician. While there is good and well intended advice on this forum, I would not bet my life on the information.

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Pugsy
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Re: fib and sleep apnea

Post by Pugsy » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:19 pm

poppyoete wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:21 pm
poppyoete (should be poppypete...but how to change that now???) :?: :?: :? :?
It can be changed and corrected but only by someone with admin powers
Send Carolyn a PM and explain that you wish the typo be corrected.
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=25316
She has been away for a bit so don't panic if she doesn't get back with you immediately.

As for ideas as to what you should do about your cpap therapy.
With your cardiac history and what is showing up on these reports...I think you need to see your doctor sooner than later.

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nicholasjh1
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Re: fib and sleep apnea

Post by nicholasjh1 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:06 am

ChicagoGranny wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:46 am
nicholasjh1 wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:21 am
You're no longer suffocating at night nor having constant adrenal fatigue
Read his post again. His AHI is going above 30 with CPAP. He is "suffocating".
oops Sorry, don't know how I missed that. THanks for setting me straight.
Instead of Sleep apnea it should be called "Sleep deprivation, starving of oxygen, being poisoned by high CO2 levels, damaging the body and brain while it's supposed to be healing so that you constantly get worse and can never get healthy Apnea"

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: fib and sleep apnea

Post by ChicagoGranny » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:23 am

poppypete wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:33 pm
attachments:
Your Sleepyhead charts are showing a significant number of clear airway events (central apneas) and some Cheynes Stokes respiration. You should see your sleep doctor right away before making additional changes to your CPAP settings. I would print out a few of the charts to show him. You may need a different type machine.