Anyone taking benzos PLEASE READ

[Chalkie]

I feel I have stumbled across something important that is highly relevant to anyone taking benzodiazepines or, like me, attempting to withdraw from them.

I resumed a tapering off Clonazepam, a failed medical intervention for PLMD, on 3 November 2017, after a long hold. It is normal for a cut to take about a week to feed through into side effects.

Monthly average AHIs:

October: 5.5
November 14.8
December 18.3
January 18.9
February 13.2
March 10.8 - pressure adjusted from 6-17 to 10-20 on 27 March
April 8.6

These are average monthly figures.

The figures that leap out at me are the sudden spike in AHI from November. I can think of no other variable whatsoever other than benzo reduction that accounts for this sudden rise. And it has only been a slow taper, about 5% per month. Looks like the increase in pressure = better-controlled apnea. Or maybe my body was gradually adjusting to the cuts which I slowed somewhat from mid-Jan, looking at the improving figures from Feb onwards.

Anyone else noticed a link between benzo reduction and a sudden drop in effectiveness of therapy?

I would be interested to see data from pre-October 2017 but my sleep doc has always said my apnea was well controlled before late last year.

[zackds]

I feel I have stumbled across something important that is highly relevant to anyone taking benzodiazepines or, like me, attempting to withdraw from them.

I resumed a tapering off Clonazepam, a failed medical intervention for PLMD, on 3 November 2017, after a long hold. It is normal for a cut to take about a week to feed through into side effects.

Monthly average AHIs:

October: 5.5
November 14.8
December 18.3
January 18.9
February 13.2
March 10.8 - pressure adjusted from 6-17 to 10-20 on 27 March
April 8.6

These are average monthly figures.

The figures that leap out at me are the sudden spike in AHI from November. I can think of no other variable whatsoever other than benzo reduction that accounts for this sudden rise. And it has only been a slow taper, about 5% per month. Looks like the increase in pressure = better-controlled apnea. Or maybe my body was gradually adjusting to the cuts which I slowed somewhat from mid-Jan, looking at the improving figures from Feb onwards.

Anyone else noticed a link between benzo reduction and a sudden drop in effectiveness of therapy?

I would be interested to see data from pre-October 2017 but my sleep doc has always said my apnea was well controlled before late last year.

im a newbie but just based on some light reading, sleep medications/depressants relax your body, including the parts that are already preventing you from breathing, resulting in worsening of apnea

[Chalkie]

Benzos are indeed meant to relax the mind and nerves. Not sure about the body but that may well be.

However, it was only before I started CUTTING the dose that problems with my PAP seemed to start. As benzos take over the work of your nervous system, or part of, it is deprived of what it requires to function properly and has to repair itself.

The data I quoted above seem to me significant.

[ChicagoGranny]

Monthly average AHIs:

October: 5.5
November 14.8
December 18.3
January 18.9
February 13.2
March 10.8 - pressure adjusted from 6-17 to 10-20 on 27 March
April 8.6

It's impossible to make a sensible comment without knowing the dosage of clonazepam you were taking during these months.

[Chalkie]

I could have posted the exact figures but it is a long and tedious list and it seemed to me overly pedantic.

With benzos the relevant figures are percentages. I can tell you that I resumed tapering at 1.25 mg but the salient fact is that I have consistently cut by 4-5% per month. That is all that is important from the perspective of this thread.

[MimiLou]

Hi, Chalkie...I read anything that mentions benzos (I refuse to give them respect by capitalizing). In the early 2000's I tried CPAP but had no support and gave it up, coincidentally I started xanax then clonazepam for my sleep problems. Fast forward 2016 when I was forced into hell by the VA to stop benzos and they didn't help me one darn bit to taper. My insomnia went through the roof (along with many many other symptoms) and I never felt rested and awakened many times a night with classic apnea symptoms but thought everything was about the benzo discontinuation. Had a sleep study and there it was...sleep apnea indeed when I would have thought being ON the benzos would have relaxed those muscles and it would have been WORSE on the benzos...but no, the opposite.
Try to focus on the fact that the pressure change worked and accept that it probably is benzo related and not a darn thing you can do except have your pressure altered. I wonder if you will have to be reassessed a bit more frequently as you journey to complete benzo discontinuation? But increased pressures are a small price to pay for getting off benzos.
To the OP who said they didn't know about muscle relaxation and benzos, muscle spasms have long been treated with benzos starting in the 60's with valium....so I also do not understand why the sleep apnea problems got worse after dose reduction unless it is like every other GABA that was affected by benzos and have to fight their way back to homeostasis/balance after any cut or total discontinuation.
Chalkie, as a fellow benzo discontinuation survivor hang in there...many ppl never really stabilize during tapers and have to power through taking each cut at a safe enough rate to prevent seizures but giving up on feeling well til all is said and done. It is well worth the journey, but in hindsight, lol!!!

[Chalkie]

Thank you, MimiLou, for your supportive message. I agree with what you say - I think the reductions are a factor and not much I can do if I want to come off the drugs but tweak pressures as best I can. No-one coming off benzos seems to have an easy time. Anyone with apnea I would advise to think very carefully if offered these meds as they are only for short-term use and addiction follows very quickly.

There are forums where people are very supportive and helpful to each other for those in benzo hell. And it is hell.

[MimiLou]

Chalkie, please don't think yourself an addict...with benzos it isn't a physical addiction to get pleasure from more more more...it insidiously creeps up because tolerance occurs and we unknowing ask for more because it "isn't working". I would talk ANYBODY out of taking benzos with the exception of a medical/surgical procedure that requires a one time dose of Versed/Midazolam. It is Big Pharma to blame and ignorent prescribers brainwashed by Big Pharma.
Best wishes.

[chunkyfrog]

When you are withdrawing from some drugs, you will need a doctor's supervision
to do so safely. Check with your doctor to see if this is one of them.

[DeepFriedDuck]

It is Big Pharma to blame and ignorent prescribers brainwashed by Big Pharma.

How can you say that when you have clearly identified the problem as somewhere else in your previous post?

Fast forward 2016 when I was forced into hell by the VA to stop benzos and they didn't help me one darn bit to taper.

It's very well know that clonazepam usually requires a tapering program. The VA screwed you.

[Chalkie]

When you are withdrawing from some drugs, you will need a doctor's supervision
to do so safely. Check with your doctor to see if this is one of them.

Yeeess, and the reality is that a doctor, as anyone withdrawing from benzos will tell you, is able to do little other than see you on a regular to monitor the process. You have to do it yourself ultimately and by a million miles the biggest support is other sufferers.

There was a radio programme on BBC 5 Live earlier this year about the scandal of ignorant doctors dishing you benzos and creating an epidemic of iatrogenic illness. But this is not a UK-only problem, it is global.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07zxrdb

Following doctor's advice I cut too fast and had to hold for over a year, enduring the most terrible suffering that is actually just par for the course for many and I know plenty have been through far worse. A much slower programme following crowdsourced advice is working much better.

MimiLou is right - it IS the fault of big pharma and poorly educated doctors. I do not have blind faith in either any more and I advise others to think the same way.

[ChicagoGranny]

I do not have blind faith in either any more and I advise others to think the same way.

I guess you haven't figure it out yet, but you are preaching to the choir. All of us are here because the medical profession does not have the resources, and we are not willing to pay them for the resources, to treat us as well as we can learn to treat ourselves. DIY.

[chunkyfrog]

Detox programs (for profit) are a huge cash cow.
I wonder how "referrals" figure in . . .
Also wondering how affordable these programs are--or even how effective . . .

[Chalkie]

I do not have blind faith in either any more and I advise others to think the same way.

I guess you haven't figure it out yet, but you are preaching to the choir. All of us are here because the medical profession does not have the resources, and we are not willing to pay them for the resources, to treat us as well as we can learn to treat ourselves. DIY.

Not a question of not working things out. In fact I was responding to a post above which doubted the role of BigPharma. And I do not believe everyone is part of this choir based on available evidence on other threads.

And WADR I am pretty sure a lot of PAP users will not be as aware of the risk of long-term benzo use as someone such as myself who has been down that road.

Anyone else been prescribed benzos other than myself and MimiLou?

[Chalkie]

Detox programs (for profit) are a huge cash cow.
I wonder how "referrals" figure in . . .
Also wondering how affordable these programs are--or even how effective . . .

Good question...I am sure some people do it successfully but have read about cases where people got badly messed up.