Mouth leaks

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
bod
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:42 am

Mouth leaks

Post by bod » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:58 am

Greetings to you. First message here.

I am primarily a nose breather and I use a nostril mask (brevida). I believe that there is no leak with this mask. Nevertheless there are major leaks shown on Sleepyhead, some times associated with dry mouth.

My understanding is that my tongue gets relaxed during the night and opens an airway to my mouth. Therefore the air leaks.

I am now very tired. I tried a warm hose (Resmed) and a lot of humidity (highest temperature and humidity index 5, above I face water in hose/mask issues). This helps, I have much less dry mouth issues. Nevertheless I still get a lot of mouth leaks. This makes a lot of noise and is a nuisance for my spouse.

I believe that no close mouth device will help as the issue is not with my mouth opening but my tongue making an airway possible. In fact, my mouth remains closed and my cheeks suddenly get all puffed during the night.

I tried an full face mask, but I get a lot of air leaks in my eyes. Never dared to go to sleep with this mask.

What can I do to prevent the mouth leaks ?

I tried to lower the air pressure. This reduces the air leaks but I loose efficiency on AHI.

Thanks

bod,
ResMed 10, Brevida, hot hose

User avatar
LSAT
Posts: 9607
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:11 am
Location: SE Wisconsin

Re: Mouth leaks

Post by LSAT » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:52 am

Have you tried taping your mouth? That's the most common fix for that problem. Chin straps can sometimes help.

_________________
Machine: S9 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine
Mask: Mirage Quattro™ Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments:  S9 Autoset...APAP Settings 11-15

bod
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:42 am

Re: Mouth leaks

Post by bod » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:04 am

No I haven't tried yet.
If I do, I guess that my cheeks will puff up, there will be no way out for the air in my mouth except in my stomach. Is this true ?

bod

User avatar
LSAT
Posts: 9607
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:11 am
Location: SE Wisconsin

Re: Mouth leaks

Post by LSAT » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:18 am

bod wrote:No I haven't tried yet.
If I do, I guess that my cheeks will puff up, there will be no way out for the air in my mouth except in my stomach. Is this true ?

bod
You still have a nose...If you still have problems, use the FF mask. That's what it was designed for. There's nothing to fear about that mask.

_________________
Machine: S9 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine
Mask: Mirage Quattro™ Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments:  S9 Autoset...APAP Settings 11-15

User avatar
Sheriff Buford
Posts: 3406
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:01 am
Location: Kingwood, Texas

Re: Mouth leaks

Post by Sheriff Buford » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:22 am

Taping your mouth will train it to stay closed at night. Hopefully, after time, you won't have to do it and it will stay closed all night.

Sheriff

_________________
Machine: AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: FitLife Total Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: I use both the Resmed F10 and Fitlife Total Mask. No humidifier.

User avatar
Sheriff Buford
Posts: 3406
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:01 am
Location: Kingwood, Texas

Re: Mouth leaks

Post by Sheriff Buford » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:27 am

Or... check out a chin strap. That will help you keep your mouth closed if you prefer not using tape.

Sheriff

_________________
Machine: AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: FitLife Total Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: I use both the Resmed F10 and Fitlife Total Mask. No humidifier.

robz
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:06 am

Re: Mouth leaks

Post by robz » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:09 am

I use a nasal pillow as well......was having leaking thru mouth......started out with chin straps....helped some, but there is always enough relaxation with my mouth that the air would start to make it thru the lips......so I decided to try and tape with chin strap.....this makes the difference.......i found that 3M Nexcare tape was the most effective....its strong enough to hold, but yet wont hurt to take off etc......I found that the pap cap worked the best for chin straps.....But keep in mind, its never 100% perfect , as its tough to get the procedure to be identical night from night......But you can get pretty darn close.....

_________________
Machine

User avatar
Pugsy
Posts: 43842
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Mouth leaks

Post by Pugsy » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:09 am

Just how badly is SleepyHead saying you are leakinig?
Is it 6 % of the time in large leak territory or is it 60%?
How deep do you go into large leak territory...max 30 L/min or spend half the night in 50 L/min area?
Are you sleeping through the leaks (whatever the size) or are you waking often.
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

bod
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:42 am

Re: Mouth leaks

Post by bod » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:41 am

How much time : bad days 15% above 24l/min with 13 minutes straight above 35l/min.

It is not waking me more than twice a night, with humidity, but my wife is really disturbed by it.

TedVPAP
Posts: 901
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:29 am

Re: Mouth leaks

Post by TedVPAP » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:42 am

I prefer using pillows so I control mouth leaking by using the Ultimate Chin Strap http://sleepapneasolutionsinc.com/

Many people are successful using a FFM. Make sure the size is correct and adjusted properly.

_________________
Machine: DreamStation Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: AutoPAP 16-20, Ultimate Chin Strap http://sleepapneasolutionsinc.com/
Use data to optimize your xPAP treatment:
how to see your data https://sleep.tnet.com/resources/sleepyhead
how to present your data https://sleep.tnet.com/resources/sleepyhead/shorganize
how to post your data https://sleep.tnet.com/reference/tips/imgur

User avatar
Pugsy
Posts: 43842
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Mouth leaks

Post by Pugsy » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:02 am

Bad days of 15% if everyone was sleeping great I probably wouldn't worry too much but if wife isn't sleeping good because of your leaks then her needs are important also. ResMed won't even give you Mr Frowny face for leak management until you hit 30% or more of the night in large leaks.
SleepyHead tends to panic over much smaller numbers.

What I would do is try taping my mouth first...object is to see if the leaks totally go away or not which would give you the answer to the question
"is it mouth breathing leaks or mask movement leaks". I have personally seen large leaks with lips taped and while they look like mouth breathing leaks on the graphs if the tape is secure then it can't be mouth breathing leaks and that leaves mask movement leaks as the culprit.
So try to identify the cause of the large leaks first and then decide how to best fix the problem.

Yes, if you tape you run the risk of chipmunk cheek syndrome but right now the object of taping is only to make sure that you are dealing with mouth leaks. Once you have for sure identified the problem then you can consider various options for fixing the problem.
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

zonker
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:36 pm

Re: Mouth leaks

Post by zonker » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:14 am

welcome to the forum, bod!

as the saying goes, happy wife, happy life.

i see you're getting lots of helpful advice. i'll chime in with-

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=112758&st=0&sk=t&sd ... i#p1086296

works for me. i'm a full bearded chap who uses a nasal pillow. don't relish shaving my beard, so i never tried mouth taping.

nicholasjh1
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:07 am

Re: Mouth leaks

Post by nicholasjh1 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:18 am

on eye leaking - I have a huge problem with that with full face masks.... the bridge of my nose is very thin and abnormally indented... like most noses meet the forehead, mine is like a centimeter further in with a ridge... there's simply no full face mask (so far) that rest on the bridge of my nose that doesn't leak into my eyes... but I also have similar mouth leak issues... I never could fully resolve them with a nasal only mask even with a chin strap etc, so Now I use an Amara view full face that doesn't use the nose bridge. Obviously results may vary, but as another Eye leaker I thought I'd share my story.
Instead of Sleep apnea it should be called "Sleep deprivation starving of oxygen, being poisoned by high CO2 levels, damaging the body and brain while it's supposed to be healing so that you constantly get worse and can never get healthy Apnea"

User avatar
Okie bipap
Posts: 1483
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:14 pm
Location: Central Oklahoma

Re: Mouth leaks

Post by Okie bipap » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:28 am

nicholasjh1 wrote:on eye leaking - I have a huge problem with that with full face masks.... the bridge of my nose is very thin and abnormally indented... like most noses meet the forehead, mine is like a centimeter further in with a ridge... there's simply no full face mask (so far) that rest on the bridge of my nose that doesn't leak into my eyes... but I also have similar mouth leak issues... I never could fully resolve them with a nasal only mask even with a chin strap etc, so Now I use an Amara view full face that doesn't use the nose bridge. Obviously results may vary, but as another Eye leaker I thought I'd share my story.
Have you tried the Amara View mask? I have a very narrow bridge on my nose, and used that mask for several months until the ResMed F20 came out, and I now use it most nights. I still use the Amara View once in a while when I have a small pimple come up just above the bridge of my nose.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ F20 Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: IPAP 12-22, ps 4, Sleepyhead software

bod
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:42 am

Re: Mouth leaks

Post by bod » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:47 am

Thank you all for your answers.

I taped my mouth and had wake ups due to my cheeks puffing up. I got rid of this issue by puncturing the tape with a toothpick to make a small hole between my lips.
During the night if pressured air comes into my mouth, it does escape slowly through the little hole.

Two advantages :
-pressure reduces to atmospheric pressure avoiding
-because of the tape small air leak, when my cheeks are puffed up, I breath in with my nose (can't breath in with my mouth due to tape) then my mouth closes again.

You can try for yourself (when awake), it is really more comfortable.

Bod