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General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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MaxINTJ
 
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Staying awake?

Postby MaxINTJ on Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:47 am

Since I am not getting any sleep no matter what I do, I have been drinking a cup of coffee every hour until about 5:00 PM.

Does anyone have experience with prescription alternatives that I could request from my doctor?

It's looking to be a lifetime prescription. :-(
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Re: Staying awake?

Postby Julie on Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:54 am

Provigil and Nuvigil. No personal experience but both are commonly prescribed for people having trouble staying awake.

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MaxINTJ
 
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Re: Staying awake?

Postby MaxINTJ on Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:05 am

Julie wrote:Provigil and Nuvigil. No personal experience but both are commonly prescribed for people having trouble staying awake.


Thanks, I will ask about Nuvigil since it has fewer side effects and is probably better than 12 cups of coffee every day.
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Re: Staying awake?

Postby Your alter ego on Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:07 am

Max! You and Amess are back. How was your cruise?

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Re: Staying awake?

Postby nicholasjh1 on Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:18 am

I'm taking Provigil, and it's completely changed my life. I'm even sleeping better, it does help some sleep better, because even though it's not completely out of the system by bedtime, when you take it in the morning your status goes to "completely awake" so you are awake throughout the day like you should be, and it helps you sleep better at night. But you should also look into other things. APnea actualy hijacks the energy system so that your body produces more CREATINE at NIGHT! This means it's getting ready to use it then , and according to the studies I read this happens even after therapy, so exercising during the day may help, and I even suplement with Creatine before workouts in the hopes that my body gets more used to using it during the day. I'm not sure where you got the info that nuvigil has less side effects than provigil, but I've read a lot of things that say that is not true. I'm sure the pharma company that created it wants people to believe that... Provigil became generic, so the company that made nuvigil did it so they could sell it again at non-generic prices.... I would trust anecdotes on usage sites more than any other literature in this case. Doctors , but particularly pharma have to much stake in the game to be telling the truth, and the truth is they are the exact same drug, except Provigil has Left and right Isomers.. Nuvigil only has one, but I don't think your body processes them any differently... you just pee out the provigil extra isomers.

But beyond this, make sure you have proper pressures, you're well below 5 AHI, etc. One thing that helped me was that even though I was getting low AHI, my pressure allowed under 10 second "apneas" that the machine does not count as apneas... my body does though, and I believe it was interrupting my sleep... The other thing is finding the right mask... in fact I've been in CPAP therapy since February and I'm getting a new mask today. a full face phillips - people either love it (because it doesn't leak and NO face pressure) or hate it (because they can't get it not to leak) so wish me luck.
Instead of Sleep apnea it should be called "Sleep deprivation starving of oxygen, being poisoned by high CO2 levels, damaging the body and brain while it's supposed to be healing so that you constantly get worse and can never get healthy Apnea"

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Re: Staying awake?

Postby MaxINTJ on Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:32 am

nicholasjh1 wrote:I'm taking Provigil, and it's completely changed my life. I'm even sleeping better, it does help some sleep better, because even though it's not completely out of the system by bedtime, when you take it in the morning your status goes to "completely awake" so you are awake throughout the day like you should be, and it helps you sleep better at night. But you should also look into other things. APnea actualy hijacks the energy system so that your body produces more CREATINE at NIGHT! This means it's getting ready to use it then , and according to the studies I read this happens even after therapy, so exercising during the day may help, and I even suplement with Creatine before workouts in the hopes that my body gets more used to using it during the day. I'm not sure where you got the info that nuvigil has less side effects than provigil, but I've read a lot of things that say that is not true. I'm sure the pharma company that created it wants people to believe that... Provigil became generic, so the company that made nuvigil did it so they could sell it again at non-generic prices.... I would trust anecdotes on usage sites more than any other literature in this case. Doctors , but particularly pharma have to much stake in the game to be telling the truth, and the truth is they are the exact same drug, except Provigil has Left and right Isomers.. Nuvigil only has one, but I don't think your body processes them any differently... you just pee out the provigil extra isomers.

But beyond this, make sure you have proper pressures, you're well below 5 AHI, etc. One thing that helped me was that even though I was getting low AHI, my pressure allowed under 10 second "apneas" that the machine does not count as apneas... my body does though, and I believe it was interrupting my sleep... The other thing is finding the right mask... in fact I've been in CPAP therapy since February and I'm getting a new mask today. a full face phillips - people either love it (because it doesn't leak and NO face pressure) or hate it (because they can't get it not to leak) so wish me luck.


I got the list of side effects from WebMD, and the top common one was back pain. That by itself is enough to make me avoid it since I already have enough of that. I just emailed my doctor and will definitely try one of those drugs. Too much coffee makes me nervous and upsets my stomach (after the 8th cup or so). I would be great to feel awake for once.

As for CPAP, my data can't get any better - at most one flag in SH, frequently zero AHI. But in my case it's just trading breathing related arousals for stupid mask related arousals, so I'm still not getting any restful sleep. The only mask I find comfortable is the Dreamwear (and I knew it would be) but my mouth doesn't stay shut, so I'm forced to use an Amara view (the smallest FFM or hybrid) which doesn't leak, but with the front mounted hose it is ALWAYS in the way and waking me up.

I do wish you luck with your new mask - I hope you find it works well for you!
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Re: Staying awake?

Postby MaxINTJ on Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:53 am

xxyzx wrote:modafanil would be better to stay awake in the daytime


Ugh, another one listing backache as a common side effect :-(

xxyzx wrote:i guess he could give you something to put you out at night
but do you want to risk doing all that


I don't know how well that would control the arousals that are just from deeper levels of sleep - I will check into it though.

xxyzx wrote:you need to stop the coffee every hour
no coffee after lunch or you wont be sleeping much


Pffft - can't do it. I can even nap after drinking 6-8 cups of coffee, so I know it's not affecting my ability to sleep at night. I can reduce coffee consumption if I have something else to keep me awake, because it can't be good for other reasons.
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Re: Staying awake?

Postby MaxINTJ on Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:26 pm

xxyzx wrote:then take a nap !
you will feel so much better


Sure, maybe my employer will provide me a nice quiet room for me to sleep on the job....
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Re: Staying awake?

Postby MaxINTJ on Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:14 pm

Well, this sucks.

My PCP refuses to prescribe Nuvigil and has referred me back to the sleep clinic - who I'm sure will also refuse to prescribe it. I guess I need to buy shares in a coffee company and prepare for stomach problems.

I am sooooo tired of this BS.
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Re: Staying awake?

Postby AMESS on Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:36 pm

Alter ego--Max (DONT KNOW HIM) and I WERE NOT ON A CRUISE TOGETHER. BUT cruise was great.

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Re: Staying awake?

Postby MaxINTJ on Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:47 pm

AMESS wrote:Alter ego--Max (DONT KNOW HIM) and I WERE NOT ON A CRUISE TOGETHER. BUT cruise was great.


Oh PUHLEEZE. somebody would have to pay me a LOT of money to go on a cruise.

It's bad enough on land running into rude, loud, annoying, or stupid people, but at least you can get away from them.

I can't imagine being stuck on a boat with them and having no way to escape.
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Re: Staying awake?

Postby nicholasjh1 on Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:54 pm

MaxINTJ wrote:Well, this sucks.

My PCP refuses to prescribe Nuvigil and has referred me back to the sleep clinic - who I'm sure will also refuse to prescribe it. I guess I need to buy shares in a coffee company and prepare for stomach problems.

I am sooooo tired of this BS.


Does he know it's approved for CPAP users? He may be thinking it's just a narcoleptic drug. Personally I'd go to another doctor (knowing what I know now). It's just that good. and it hasn't caused any sleeping issues for me.
Instead of Sleep apnea it should be called "Sleep deprivation starving of oxygen, being poisoned by high CO2 levels, damaging the body and brain while it's supposed to be healing so that you constantly get worse and can never get healthy Apnea"

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Re: Staying awake?

Postby nicholasjh1 on Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:20 pm

nicholasjh1 wrote:
MaxINTJ wrote:Well, this sucks.

My PCP refuses to prescribe Nuvigil and has referred me back to the sleep clinic - who I'm sure will also refuse to prescribe it. I guess I need to buy shares in a coffee company and prepare for stomach problems.

I am sooooo tired of this BS.


Does he know it's approved for CPAP users? He may be thinking it's just a narcoleptic drug. Personally I'd go to another doctor (knowing what I know now). It's just that good. and it hasn't caused any sleeping issues for me.


Also I do have intermittent lower left back problems, and it's been fine on provigil. It feels slightly activated, but no pain, the only reason I think it's activated though is because I've been so active and getting so much stuff done. Exercise 3-5 times a week, picking up the house etc... Provigil is so effective at what it does that people might "overdo it" and activate their back issue. I don't think it does anything personally to do that (maybe dehydration if you dont drink enough) I think it's just that if someone hasn't been active, then they clean the whole house on a whim because provigil gets them awake, driven and alive, then yes, if you're not careful and you have back issues there's a chance you tweak your back. If anything provigil probably says it over nuvigil because provigil is decades old, and nuvigil just a few years... more time to collect evidence.

Anyway, my doc tried to keep me on wellbutrin, and I told her nonsense and insisted on the provigil since it is on label for cpap users and wellbutrin is not (and in fact wellbutrin was jacking up my sleep).
Instead of Sleep apnea it should be called "Sleep deprivation starving of oxygen, being poisoned by high CO2 levels, damaging the body and brain while it's supposed to be healing so that you constantly get worse and can never get healthy Apnea"

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Re: Staying awake?

Postby MaxINTJ on Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:06 pm

nicholasjh1 wrote:
MaxINTJ wrote:Well, this sucks.

My PCP refuses to prescribe Nuvigil and has referred me back to the sleep clinic - who I'm sure will also refuse to prescribe it. I guess I need to buy shares in a coffee company and prepare for stomach problems.

I am sooooo tired of this BS.


Does he know it's approved for CPAP users? He may be thinking it's just a narcoleptic drug. Personally I'd go to another doctor (knowing what I know now). It's just that good. and it hasn't caused any sleeping issues for me.


Yes, but it's a stimulant that can interfere with sleep. >.<
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Re: Staying awake?

Postby MaxINTJ on Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:08 pm

xxyzx wrote:i played the handicapped and need reasonable accomodations card
worked out better for both of us

i stayed later to make up for the time i slept


I have 10 hour days now, WTF would I want to make them longer?
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