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General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Mark55
 
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Respiration rate question,....

Postby Mark55 on Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:20 pm

I was wondering why so many of my SH charts show a RR between 13 and 16,...up to around 20 at times, when my normal awake resting RR is 9 to 11. I guess I am of the thought process that it would be slower while in a deep sleep than in a resting awake state. Is the normal sleep RR different for a person on a CPAP as compared to a non treated person?

It almost seems as if the machine is forcing me to breathe faster than normal.

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CapnLoki
 
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Re: Respiration rate question,....

Postby CapnLoki on Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:11 pm

Mark55 wrote:I was wondering why so many of my SH charts show a RR between 13 and 16,...up to around 20 at times, when my normal awake resting RR is 9 to 11. I guess I am of the thought process that it would be slower while in a deep sleep than in a resting awake state. Is the normal sleep RR different for a person on a CPAP as compared to a non treated person?

It almost seems as if the machine is forcing me to breathe faster than normal.

Sleep respiration is often a bit faster than awake resting. My NREM (the steady sleep before REM) rate is about 18, REM is ragged, 18 to 24, but waking is about 15. The reduced rate is the easiest way for me to detect a wakeful period.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=94782

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xxyzx
 
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Re: Respiration rate question,....

Postby xxyzx on Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:18 pm

Mark55 wrote:I was wondering why so many of my SH charts show a RR between 13 and 16,...up to around 20 at times, when my normal awake resting RR is 9 to 11. I guess I am of the thought process that it would be slower while in a deep sleep than in a resting awake state. Is the normal sleep RR different for a person on a CPAP as compared to a non treated person?

It almost seems as if the machine is forcing me to breathe faster than normal.

========

the first bipap tried to make me breathe faster and deeper than i wanted to
my asv was iffy at first but seems to adjust its rate to my rate not forcing me to breathe at its rate

looking at my data i see the RR goes up when the Vt goes down
i have typically 90 min of much lower Vt every night with the RR about doubling as the Vt goes down about 5x
keeping the minute vent at about 5 for the lowest rate

RR while sleeping is different from awake
usually much lower and much shallower
with exceptions for sleep stage or lack thereof
IF I ever say anything incorrect somebody will post true facts to prove it. But when my posts are accurate they will always attack me personally. You can decide whether my post is correct or not by looking at which they did. [color=#FF00FF]

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Re: Respiration rate question,....

Postby xxyzx on Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:19 pm

CapnLoki wrote:
Mark55 wrote:I was wondering why so many of my SH charts show a RR between 13 and 16,...up to around 20 at times, when my normal awake resting RR is 9 to 11. I guess I am of the thought process that it would be slower while in a deep sleep than in a resting awake state. Is the normal sleep RR different for a person on a CPAP as compared to a non treated person?

It almost seems as if the machine is forcing me to breathe faster than normal.

Sleep respiration is often a bit faster than awake resting. My NREM (the steady sleep before REM) rate is about 18, REM is ragged, 18 to 24, but waking is about 15. The reduced rate is the easiest way for me to detect a wakeful period.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=94782

=======

maybe for you

most people breathe slower and shallower when asleep
IF I ever say anything incorrect somebody will post true facts to prove it. But when my posts are accurate they will always attack me personally. You can decide whether my post is correct or not by looking at which they did. [color=#FF00FF]

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Re: Respiration rate question,....

Postby ajack on Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:10 am

rem can get some fast breath rates. Breath rates and tidal volume all over the place, but as long as the o2 is ok, it's not an issue. Generally the nonrem is slower and shallower on my charts. You also need to take into account the tidal volume and minute vent when you look at breath rate. you can't do much with cpap, but the volume and BPM can be helped/adjusted with bpap if needed.

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xxyzx doesn't know a lot and tends to misinterpret stuff, I would read elsewhere

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Mark55
 
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Re: Respiration rate question,....

Postby Mark55 on Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:44 am

ajack wrote:rem can get some fast breath rates. Breath rates and tidal volume all over the place, but as long as the o2 is ok, it's not an issue. Generally the nonrem is slower and shallower on my charts. You also need to take into account the tidal volume and minute vent when you look at breath rate. you can't do much with cpap, but the volume and BPM can be helped/adjusted with bpap if needed.

One thing I have noticed for certain with the Airsense10 Autoset is it doesn't like very slow respiration. When I am totally relaxed in bed,...say watching tv for a little bit, I will exhale long and slow (which is normal for me), and before I'm 100% done and ready to inhale, the machine starts sending out its pulse wave checking for an apnea which makes me suck in a breath before I really want to. My spo2 levels are perfect awake, so my very relaxed breathing pattern is fine for me.

I wonder how many of these episodes are being flagged as events?

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Re: Respiration rate question,....

Postby Julie on Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:51 am

You won't get valid anything trying to interpret awake breathing as if it was asleep breathing... the machine obviously doesn't 'know' you're awake but your pattern is different and it does know that and will react differently to when you're asleep.

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Re: Respiration rate question,....

Postby xxyzx on Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:32 pm

Mark55 wrote:
ajack wrote:rem can get some fast breath rates. Breath rates and tidal volume all over the place, but as long as the o2 is ok, it's not an issue. Generally the nonrem is slower and shallower on my charts. You also need to take into account the tidal volume and minute vent when you look at breath rate. you can't do much with cpap, but the volume and BPM can be helped/adjusted with bpap if needed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

One thing I have noticed for certain with the Airsense10 Autoset is it doesn't like very slow respiration. When I am totally relaxed in bed,...say watching tv for a little bit, I will exhale long and slow (which is normal for me), and before I'm 100% done and ready to inhale, the machine starts sending out its pulse wave checking for an apnea which makes me suck in a breath before I really want to. My spo2 levels are perfect awake, so my very relaxed breathing pattern is fine for me.

I wonder how many of these episodes are being flagged as events?

============

exactly

the machines should adapt to us not force us to breathe faster deeper because they think we should

an ASV is supposed to do that although mine fails at times but far less than the aircurve 10 vauto did
IF I ever say anything incorrect somebody will post true facts to prove it. But when my posts are accurate they will always attack me personally. You can decide whether my post is correct or not by looking at which they did. [color=#FF00FF]


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