Newbie Seeking Path Forward

I have used the Air Curve 10 Vauto for over two years. I have had settings of 20 - 25 cm H2O IPAP with Pressure Support of 5, 17 - 20 IPAP with PS of 3, straight 17 with PS of 3, and currently use straight 20 with PS of 3. I have found this to be the point where I have the best over all balance of CAs, OAs, and hypopneas. My wife uses the same type of machine and her IPAP is 12 - 20 with a PS of 4. So obviously this machine can be set as either auto of fixed pressure.

Answers to your questions.

I used to have issues falling asleep, but continuous Ambien therapy changed that and for a while I had no insomnia. About 6-months after stopping Ambien completely I started to have early morning awakenings usually 3:30-4:00 AM. Went back to Ambien as needed (1-2 times/week) some days keeps me asleep till 6:00AM some days not.

So you've got some problems with insomnia, in the sense getting to sleep with the mask on (up to 45 minute for sleep latency), staying asleep (a few wake ups at night), and waking up too early.

And you are taking Ambien "as needed" 1-2 times a week. What makes you decide that you need to take an Ambien on a given night?

I usually take it after not sleeping for 2-3 days or if I’m too wound up to sleep and have an important next day.

1) What does your typical sleep schedule look like? Do you have a regular bedtime? A regular wake up time? If so, what are they?

Yes, In bed at the same time every night-11PM. Read or watch TV till drowsy, put on mask, hit ramp go to sleep. Room is cool, dark and I always have the fan and a white noise machine going. Alarm is set for 6 AM each day.

2) You say it takes you 30-45 minutes to get to sleep with the mask on. How uncomfortable do you get during that period? Any dry mouth problems during that period?

Not usually uncomfortable, the mask and pressure don’t bother me much when falling asleep anymore. No dry mouth during that period.

3) When you take the Ambien, do you get to sleep any faster? If so, how much faster?

Yes, I would say 2/3rds faster with Ambien. I’m positive that a good bit of that is psychological in that I know the pill is going to knock me out so I’m much more relaxed knowing I’m not going have to fight to get to sleep.

4) How many wakes do you usually remember when you wake up in the morning? 2 or 3? Or more like 5-6? When you take the Ambien, do you remember fewer wakes?

Probably 3-4 wakes. Usually zero to 1 wake with Ambien.

5) When you wake up 45-60 minutes before your alarm goes off and you can't get back to sleep, how uncomfortable are you with the mask on? Is your mouth exceptionally dry at that point?

I used to be fairly comfortable, but its just recently that the dry mouth has gotten so bad that I rip the mask off the second I wake up and try to rehydrate my mouth. I’ve seen the commercials for dry mouth and thought “sissies”, well this dry mouth is insane. Just call me a sissy.

6) When you wake up in the middle of the night, what's the first thing you do? Look at the clock? Start calculating how little sleep you've gotten so far? Start worrying about how little time there is before you have to get up the next morning?

I lay there praying its after 5Am and try to stay in a half awake/half asleep state. This is going to sound a bit crazy, but I try to feel if there is any light entering the room without opening my eyes. If I can’t sense any I try to go back to sleep most times I’m wrong and its only 3AM. I then look at the clock, curse under my breath and ruminate about how crappy I’m going to feel the next day and/or how many hours I am going to have to lay in bed before getting up. I try to stay in bed so as not to wake my wife who has long work days.

7) If the Ambien was working well, was there a reason you discontinued it? In other words, would you be willing to start taking Ambien every night if it helped you get more sleep and more continuous sleep with the CPAP?

My doctor suggested tapering off of it and only using it as needed so I followed his instructions. Ambien won’t work for me long term anymore, which is why I only take it 1-2 times per week. Taking it 3 nights in a row it won’t work on the 3rd night. Plus I really don’t like the thought of being on a med every night for any reason.

How much caffeine and alcohol do you consume on a daily basis? How late into the day/evening do you consume caffeine and/or alcohol?

The only caffeine I get is two large cups of coffee each morning and I would never be able to get through my day without them. I was drinking 1-2 diet cokes with lunch, but totally cut soda out at the beginning of this year. I know not to have any caffeine of any kind, including chocolate after 1pm. I don’t drink alcohol during the week and usually will have a glass or two of red wine with dinner on Saturday.

9) Do you get some exercise on a regular basis? Even something as short as a 15-20 minute walk around the neighborhood can make you feel and sleep better.

Yes I’m an exercise fanatic. I do 45mins to an hour of cardio everyday and lift weights 3 days a week. I tried walking the dog at night but depending on the season I was either too hot or too cold after the walk to relax enough to sleep. Since I’m already up early my wife and I switched walking times and now have the morning shift.

10) Do you get some outside light each day?

No I rarely get outside during the week. I tend to spend most of my day behind the computer screen during the week. In addition, the thyroid disorder has made me much less tolerant of heat and cold so I do spend a lot more time indoors than when I was younger. My PCP put me on Vitamin D due to low levels a few years ago, but my sleep doc said it probably wasn’t helping anything so I could stop it.


Finally I'll offer a bit of very NONtraditional advice for what to try next: I think that your ongoing problems with fatigue and daytime brain fog are more likely caused by the fact that you are only getting about 4 hours of actual sleep, even if you are in bed for substantially longer than that. I suspect that fixing the insomnia will make it much easier to tolerate the CPAP, and that you will only feel better during the daytime when both the insomina and the sleep apnea are kept under control. The data indicates your CPAP is doing a decent job of managing your apnea, but your statements indicate that you do indeed have an insomnia problem even if that's not how you think about it.

I will absolutely take your suggestions and try to implement most of them. I do want to clarify that I don’t think that I am intolerant of CPAP therapy my rate of compliance at greater than 4-hours is 86% and it would have been higher if not for a cold that kept me congested for 3-weeks.

Here's what I would suggest:

1) Use SleepyHead's notes area to keep a very simple sleep log. Each morning make a note of how much sleep you think you actually got during the night and how well you feel when you get up. Also track whether or not you took an Ambien. You need to tease out whether you feel better, worse, or about the same after the nights you take Ambien.

Okay

2) After a couple of weeks, start looking at the data in your sleep log for any patterns that stand out. My guess is that you may discover you sleep better on the nights that you take the Ambien---if you take the Ambien early enough in the night to not have a rough start of the night.

Okay

3) Consider going back to taking Ambien every night for a week or two. See if taking it continuously rather than "as needed" helps you sleep longer than your current 4 hours/night. If taking the Ambien every night helps you get more like 6-7 hours of sleep, then in time you should start to feel better.

As previously mentioned, it wont work for me after a few days of use so going back on is not something I think I should do, but I do greatly appreciate the suggestion.

Good luck with reining in your insomnia problem.

Thanks for all your questions & suggestions! When I was younge I never understood why Elvis, Michael Jackson & recently Prince self medicated just to get some sleep. Now I understand. Sleep is precious and when you don’t get it you’ll try anything to get some including joining a forum and discussing your medical history with people you’ve never met!

I didn't read past "I usually take it after not sleeping for 2-3 days or if I’m too wound up to sleep and have an important next day." you need continuity of treatment. If you need mjedication, a lottle every day is better than all or nothing. This is only setting you up for insomnia.
you need to research sleep hygiene and perhaps see a sleep specialist.

Hi,

Here are the last 3 nights after changing my flex level from 3 to 1.
Tuesday- Took Ambien slept fairly well, 1 awakening, got pretty close to alarm, dry mouth upon waking, but none noticed during the night
Wednesday- No drugs, terrible night woke 3-4 times due to terrible dry mouth each time
Thursday- No drugs, slept okay woke twice, dry mouth upon waking, but none noticed earlier in the evening.

xxyzx wrote:your pressure maxed out
why not try increasing it

No it didn't max out. What you are seeing with the flat line is constant pressure because that is all the machine can deliver in cpap/fixed mode.

He is using a DreamStation Pro which is a fixed cpap machine. It is set for 8 so it is flat lined at 8 because in cpap fixed mode it can't go higher.
The going up you see at the beginning of the night is the ramp being used.

He did change the Flex exhale relief from 3 to 1 which means that the pressure upon exhale isn't quite as low as it was when at 3...and this effectively brings the overall pressure average up a little bit. Similar to a modest 0.5 (approx) increase in the actual pressure setting.
So the gap between the top pressure line (inhale) and the bottom line (exhale) is going to be a little less

To Hammer:
All in all very decent reports if you slept decently which is your goal because you are having some insomnia issues.

The dry mouth....if it is mouth breathing it sure isn't very much. He doesn't go into large leak territory (no LL flags on the Events graph) despite what SleepyHead says in the statistics for time over red line threshold. SleepyHead is using ResMed large leak numbers and they don't work on a Respironics machine.
On the July 20 report there are zero large leak flags on the Events graph yet SH says that 2.13% of the time was spent in large leak territory and over the threshold. That is incorrect...to fix it need to go into SleepyHead Preferences/CPAP tab and change the 24 L/min red line threshold (that SH defaults to) to something more in line with a Respironics threshold. Respironics never gives us an exact threshold because it can vary so much between pressures used and mask used but something along the lines of 60 L/min at these pressures would be a nice conservation number to use.

If mouth breathing is going on...it isn't enough to negatively impact the therapy since it never goes into large leak territory.
Now it might be impacting sleep quality if you wake up because of it but it's not harming the therapy itself.
It actually takes very little mouth breathing to cause dry mouth anyway...and some of it might be related to medication side effects and some of us just are unlucky in that we get the dry mouth issues way too easily.
I don't remember if you are using a nasal mask or full face mask but even if you are using a nasal mask and you are mouth breathing...it isn't enough to impact therapy.
What to do about the dry mouth...lots of different stuff to try in terms of products designed to reduce dry mouth. Common complaint of cpap users and you just have to keep trying products till you find something that works well for you.

Hammer,

I need to summarize things before I can respond. Please correct me if I have something wrong in my summary.

You sleep well when you take Ambien for one or two nights, but the third night it doesn't work so well. You also don't particularly want to take a sleeping pill every night, but you don't mind taking them 1-2 nights a week. Without the Ambien you wake up 3-4 times; with the Ambien you wake up 0-1 times. You have a regular "time in bed" schedule of 11Pm to 6AM, but you also read in bed before you turn out the light. When you don't take the Ambien, you do have some anxiety/worry that you will wind up "fighting" to get to sleep, and it can take you two to three times as long to fall asleep on a night when you don't take the Ambien. Your biggest insomnia issue right now is more the early morning wakes when you can't get back to sleep, and these happen more when you don't take the Ambien, but they can happen even when you do take the Ambien. Those early morning wakes are often accompanied by dry mouth problems that are significant enough to be a comfort issue.

After the early morning wakes, you typically stay in bed (in an effort to not disturb your wife), but while lying in bed you focus on the fact that you are awake and can't get back to sleep. You also have a tendency to watch the clock when you've woken up and can't get back to sleep. And you worry about how lousy you are going to feel the next day.

You drink two large cups of caffeinated coffee in the morning, and say you can't possibly get going without them. You've cut out the afternoon diet Coke habit, and you are caffeine free after 1pm. You only have the occasional glass of wine with supper, maybe once a week.

You get plenty of exercise, and you've swapped the evening "walk the dog" for the morning "walk the dog". But you don't get outside much, except for that morning "walk the dog". (I presume you walk the dog outside.)

You spend much of the day (like too many of us, including me) sitting in front of a computer. You've got a known thyroid problem that leaves you sensitive to heat and cold, which affects you when you are outside. You used to take Vitamin D, but no longer do that since neither you nor your doc thought it was doing much good.

You are willing to keep a sleep log for a while and gather some data for a week or two, and then evaluate on where to go.

And, of course, you are still feeling pretty lousy even though the data from the CPAP looks good. But you are also self-reporting that you often only get 4 hours of sleep.

Have I got the synopsis pretty accurate?

Now for some specific suggestions for you to try while you're keeping the sleep log.

1) Slightly modify how you take the Ambien. You write:

I usually take it (the Ambien) after not sleeping for 2-3 days or if I’m too wound up to sleep and have an important next day.

I think you may want to not wait for 2-3 sleepless nights before taking the Ambien. I would suggest this instead: If you have a bad night when you don't take the Ambien, go ahead and take the Ambien at the beginning of the next night. In other words, try to use the Ambien to prevent yourself from having 2-3 sleepless nights in a row. This may mean (in the short run) that you are taking Ambien every other night for a while, but it should still keep you to taking no more than 3 Ambiens per week.

The idea here is that when you have 2 or 3 really bad nights in a row, that's going to make you feel really awful on the second and third days. Most people can sort of function after one really bad night, but it's much more difficult to function after 2 or 3 bad nights in a row.


2) Slightly modify the caffeine. Try to make sure that you don't consume any caffeine after 10AM. Also try to switch to medium cups of coffee instead of large ones.


3) Modify your behavior when you do wake up at 3, 4, or 5 AM and you find that you can't get back to sleep. I know you're trying to not disturb your wife, but you write this:

I lay there praying its after 5Am and try to stay in a half awake/half asleep state. This is going to sound a bit crazy, but I try to feel if there is any light entering the room without opening my eyes. If I can’t sense any I try to go back to sleep most times I’m wrong and its only 3AM. I then look at the clock, curse under my breath and ruminate about how crappy I’m going to feel the next day and/or how many hours I am going to have to lay in bed before getting up. I try to stay in bed so as not to wake my wife who has long work days.

Your laying in bed trying to not wake your wife is most likely making it much harder for you to fall back asleep.

Here's what I would suggest that you do:

• Move the clock or at least turn it around so that you can't see it. Resist looking at the clock when you finally open your eyes. All looking at the clock is doing right now is triggering worry, anxiety, and/or anger. And none of those is helpful in getting back to sleep.
• Go ahead and open your eyes when you first wake up. If it's light, congratulate yourself for sleeping 'till dawn, deal with the dry mouth problems (more on that in a bit), and snuggle back down to see if you can get some sleep, or if you know you're not going to get back to sleep, just get up. If it's dark when you open your eyes, tell yourself that you probably just had a normal post-REM wake and that everything in your sleep environment seems "ok". Then deal with the dry mouth problems (if any) and snuggle back down to see if you can get some sleep.
• If you can't get back to sleep in a reasonable amount of time OR if you start ruminating about how crappy you're going to feel or how many hours you have to lay in bed before getting up, you are better off getting out of bed. Yes, right now you're worried that this will wake your wife. But if you quietly just get up, chances are it won't disturb your wife anywhere near as much as you think it will. Once you are out of bed, you can go into another room and do something quiet and relaxing. Reading a book might be a good choice. Sometimes all it takes is getting out of bed long enough to go to the bathroom and chill out for 5 or 10 minutes. Once you are relaxed and feeling sleepy, go back to bed.

4) For the dry mouth problems: Tackle this on multiple fronts. Biotene mouth wash and the XyliMelt mints can help. Keeping yourself well hydrated during the daytime and drinking some water right before bed can help. But when you wake up with the parched mouth, the best thing to do is to get a drink of water. Some people would say keep a bottle of water on the night table. For me, I find that on those rare occasions when I do wake up with dry mouth, I have better luck if I get up, go to the bathroom, and drink as much water as I feel like I want/need before going back to bed.

Your leak lines are acceptable, but not great. You are probably doing a bit of mouth breathing, or it may just be that your tongue falls off the top of the roof of your mouth at times, and that can let air into the mouth. It's that excess air blowing into your mouth that's causing the dry mouth. Since you've had a cold, then that might explain why this didn't use to be as much of a problem. Lots of people who don't normally mouth breathe will do some mouth breathing when they've got a head cold. As your congestion gets better, hopefully you'll quit mouth breathing.


5) Reconsider what you do right at bedtime. Right now you are going to bed, but not necessarily to sleep, at 11PM and the alarm goes off at 6AM that gives you a 7 hour "time in bed" window. You read or watch TV in bed for a while before masking up and turning out the light. The data you've posted indicates that you might mask up as early as 11:10 or it might be as late as midnight. Right now, I would suggest that you avoid watching TV while in bed. Reading is less of a problem, although if you are not getting sleepy after 15-20 minutes, then reading may be keeping you awake later than you think it is. Also consider tracking whether you feel better or worse on nights when you spend a lot of time in bed before masking up and going to sleep.


6) Consider whether the timing of your exercise routine affects your sleep patterns. In general, exercise usually helps people sleep better, but if its done too close to bedtime, then it can key you up and make it more difficult to fall asleep.

Hammer wrote:Hi,

Here are the last 3 nights after changing my flex level from 3 to 1.

How does Flex=1 feel? Just as comfortable or more comfortable than Flex=3?

Tuesday- Took Ambien slept fairly well, 1 awakening, got pretty close to alarm, dry mouth upon waking, but none noticed during the night

You masked up just after going to bed at 11pm on this night. The hypopneas in the second half of the night are probably REM related. They're not so dense that a pressure increase absolutely necessary, but once you are sleeping a bit more soundly every night, a smidge more pressure might help prevent some of these from happening.

Wednesday- No drugs, terrible night woke 3-4 times due to terrible dry mouth each time

You said in the other post that you go to bed at 11, but sometimes read or watch TV before masking up. On this night, you didn't turn the machine on until almost midnight. Did you read or watch TV? And how long did it take you to fall asleep once you put the mask on?

Looks like you may have had a wake sometime between 2:00 and 2:15 (and possibly as early as 1:45), and another one around 3:15 or 3:20. I can't spot the other wakes in the data; that doesn't mean they didn't happen, but it does mean they're were probably much shorter than the two I've mentioned. If you want to track the wakes without looking at the clock when you wake up, an easy way to do that is to just turn the machine off and right back on.

And what happened after 3:47 when you turned the machine off? Did you fall back asleep without the mask?

A final comment about the Wednesday data: Outside of the two rather obvious probable wakes, this data looks a lot like the first 3 or 3.5 hours of the data on Tuesday night. Looks to me like Ambien keeps you asleep long enough to hit some sustained REM cycles. And REM is good.

Thursday- No drugs, slept okay woke twice, dry mouth upon waking, but none noticed earlier in the evening.

You turned the machine on at 11:35. What did you do between 11:00 and 11:30---read or watch TV?

The timing of the wakes is not as clear on this night as it was on Wednesday. Again, the events in the second half of the night may be REM related. Unless they happen to be scored when you happened to be awake.

@robysue

I'll try to answer both your e-mails here. Let me know if you need further clarification. Again , thank you for investing so much of your time to try to help me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes your summary is accurate.

Just to clarify, I am done with caffeine by 8:30 AM most days. I've tried on numerous occasions to switch to decaf or half-caf, or smaller cups but I always end up back at two large cups. I know it can sometimes be a viscous circle, but I need it to function with or without ambien.

I'll think about a new ambien regimen, but will need to speak to my doc as we both agreed increasing use decreases effectiveness in me. My current inventory will not support that regimen and will require a new Rx. Not sure how doc will react to request for more when we have previously agreed it doesn't work for "ME" with extended use.

Will turn clock away, but getting up is a struggle because its sure to wake my wife and then the dog. One bad thing about our house is that it is a fishbowl with uncovered windows everywhere and the bedroom is the only dark, private place in the entire home. Not to scare anyone, but since I sleep in the raw getting up to go to another room requires me to find & put on some clothes further waking me up.

I tried Biotene when I first started getting dry mouth and it wasn't much help except for the time to fall asleep, there was no extended moisturizing effect during the night. I have the Xylimelts, but even those have not been able to overcome the voracity of the recent dryness.

The head cold and congestion was back in April so the congestion has been gone for quite a while.

The TV thing will be a challenge since this is my wife's doing. I knew a TV was not a good idea for the bedroom, but my wife says it is the "Only" thing that helps her fall asleep. Even if I'm reading, the TV is on in the background. I don't wan't people to get the wrong idea about my position in our marriage. For years my career was the most important and my wife sacrificed a lot for me. Our roles have been reversed and now her career is taking off and is more important so I do whatever I can to make sure she has everything she needs to be successful.

I usually exercise after walking the dog early AM, sometimes at lunch, but never after 4:00 PM

Changing the flex from 3 to 1 is noticeable when I first put on the mask, but I can quickly adjust my breathing to acclimate and it is not a bother.

The night I did not put the mask on till midnight I could not sleep and was watching TV till I got drowsy and then put the mask on.

At 3:47 I ripped the mask off because the dry mouth was horrific. I laid there awake till 5 and then got up for the day.

On Thursday I watched the news from 11-11:30 before getting drowsy and putting on the mask.

You are in good hands with Robysue, Pugsy and Julie to mention a few. They are great aren't they.

I woke up the other day with dry mouth, and I remembered an old trick (singer use it) very simple, you can do it in bed and not disturb anybody.

Rub your tongue along your teeth. This will generate saliva. I can't recall if it took some practice to be effective, but give it a try. You have four sides of your teeth.

I too have difficulties with insomnia so I understand the frustration and the fear.

Cpapian wrote:
I woke up the other day with dry mouth, and I remembered an old trick (singer use it) very simple, you can do it in bed and not disturb anybody.

I am not sure about this...

After a night of rubbing my teeth I sang a song for my wife and she threw a pillow at me...

HoseCrusher wrote:
After a night of rubbing my teeth I sang a song for my wife and she threw a pillow at me...

Justly deserved, I imagine

Hammer wrote:@robysue

I'll try to answer both your e-mails here. Let me know if you need further clarification. Again , thank you for investing so much of your time to try to help me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes your summary is accurate.

Just to clarify, I am done with caffeine by 8:30 AM most days. I've tried on numerous occasions to switch to decaf or half-caf, or smaller cups but I always end up back at two large cups. I know it can sometimes be a viscous circle, but I need it to function with or without ambien.

I'll think about a new ambien regimen, but will need to speak to my doc as we both agreed increasing use decreases effectiveness in me. My current inventory will not support that regimen and will require a new Rx. Not sure how doc will react to request for more when we have previously agreed it doesn't work for "ME" with extended use.

Will turn clock away, but getting up is a struggle because its sure to wake my wife and then the dog. One bad thing about our house is that it is a fishbowl with uncovered windows everywhere and the bedroom is the only dark, private place in the entire home. Not to scare anyone, but since I sleep in the raw getting up to go to another room requires me to find & put on some clothes further waking me up.

I tried Biotene when I first started getting dry mouth and it wasn't much help except for the time to fall asleep, there was no extended moisturizing effect during the night. I have the Xylimelts, but even those have not been able to overcome the voracity of the recent dryness.

The head cold and congestion was back in April so the congestion has been gone for quite a while.

The TV thing will be a challenge since this is my wife's doing. I knew a TV was not a good idea for the bedroom, but my wife says it is the "Only" thing that helps her fall asleep. Even if I'm reading, the TV is on in the background. I don't wan't people to get the wrong idea about my position in our marriage. For years my career was the most important and my wife sacrificed a lot for me. Our roles have been reversed and now her career is taking off and is more important so I do whatever I can to make sure she has everything she needs to be successful.

I usually exercise after walking the dog early AM, sometimes at lunch, but never after 4:00 PM

Changing the flex from 3 to 1 is noticeable when I first put on the mask, but I can quickly adjust my breathing to acclimate and it is not a bother.

The night I did not put the mask on till midnight I could not sleep and was watching TV till I got drowsy and then put the mask on.

At 3:47 I ripped the mask off because the dry mouth was horrific. I laid there awake till 5 and then got up for the day.

On Thursday I watched the news from 11-11:30 before getting drowsy and putting on the mask.

So, I stopped by my original doctor's office today and asked for a copy of my sleep study. As it turns out I've never actually had a full in-patient sleep study. I had the home study which is what diagnosed severe sleep apnea with both central & obstructive apnea.The doctor said the home study usually under reports the numbers and my apnea is probably much worse. My inpatient study was only a titration study to get the correct pressure number for the CPAP. So now the questions begs do I need a full blown sleep study??

Hammer wrote: So, I stopped by my original doctor's office today and asked for a copy of my sleep study. As it turns out I've never actually had a full in-patient sleep study. I had the home study which is what diagnosed severe sleep apnea with both central & obstructive apnea.The doctor said the home study usually under reports the numbers and my apnea is probably much worse. My inpatient study was only a titration study to get the correct pressure number for the CPAP. So now the questions begs do I need a full blown sleep study??

I'd say that you do NOT need a full blown sleep study since the home study was accurate enough to say there IS a problem with severe OSA and the home study was capable of picking up CAs as well as obstructive ones.

It is worth getting the full summary report including the summary graphs of the titration study, however.

How did last night go in terms of getting to sleep and getting back to sleep after the wakes go? And any progress on the dry mouth issues?

Hey All,

I've made a follow-up appt with my sleep doc to discuss changing my current Ambien regimen. The last few weeks have been really bad with not only my ability to stay asleep, but the last week I'm laying awake much longer than usual. I was speaking to a friend yesterday and she mentioned that she has been having difficulty falling asleep since she started a new diet. Coincidentally, I started a new diet about 4-weeks ago which I am now wondering what, if any, role diet plays in sleep. I started a low carb diet and am eating mostly protein & healthy fats and am avoiding carbs. I usually do this diet every couple years to get into those pants in the back of my closet. After shoulder surgery, I put on about 12 lbs and started the diet the last week of June and have been religiously keeping carbs below 25 per day.

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY DATA ON CARB CUTTING CAUSING INSOMNIA??

Hammer wrote: After shoulder surgery, I put on about 12 lbs and started the diet the last week of June and have been religiously keeping carbs below 25 per day.

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY DATA ON CARB CUTTING CAUSING INSOMNIA??

No data, but a bit of semi-related experience. Due to being prediabetic, I have cut my carbs low, but not that low. Mine are between 65 and 80. I already have sleeping issues and this didn't worsen them. (Although this, and lowering calorie intake, was a tremendous help in losing 40 pounds and lowering my A1C!) I know some folks who keep their daily carb count under 50 and have not mentioned any sleeping issues. Hope this helps some.