Does CPAP Cause Central Apneas?

Pugsy wrote:Opiate induced centrals are really just the opiates messing (potentially suppressing and if someone already has a rather weak respiration it magnifies things) with the respiration and making it potentially unstable and creating the likelihood that centrals might pop up. Again it doesn't happen to everyone. Back a few years ago I broke my wrist and had to have surgery and I had to take some pretty powerful opiates or there wouldn't be any sleep at all and I didn't have one extra central that I could point to as "real"....now I had some that were definitely related to arousals but that was arousal from the pain and I was likely holding my breath while trying to find some sort of comfortable position to sleep in.

Opiates, like cpap pressures, can cause centrals in some people but not in others and in the some people it does it can be a huge problem or a minor annoyance. Again that big YMMV sticker.

I think that there are likely other factors involved that we don't or can't know about when all we see is the software reports showing a truckload of centrals. There are other health issues that could be a factor and other breathing issues that could be a factor like the hypoventilation or COPD...other factors where maybe a targeted volume might be a better choice. It's rarely just one lone thing that causes any problem and this is where and why we say "talk to your doctor about this if it concerns you" ...no matter how small the whatever might be that we are seeing on the reports that someone is in a panic over.

I will tell people who are seeing more centrals than we would like that they may go away with time...and there's a decent chance that they will but I also tell them the other side....they may not go away and they might need a different machine....and it's something they need to discuss with their doctor. I don't know all the history or other medical issues....that's what the doctor is there for.

From my past experience...people who have opiate induced centrals will likely have them without cpap or in other words they get the complex sleep apnea diagnosis from the diagnostic study...I don't think those will go away with time unless opiates go away and usually people on those type of meds have some other stuff going on and they might not have an alternative that will work for them. But that's not what this thread is about...this thread is about those people who have a plain ordinary Obstructive diagnosis and whatever centrals they may have had in the diagnostic study wasn't enough to move up to the Complex diagnosis. Of course there are always outliers who don't fit the expect norm but in general if someone is on enough opiates to cause centrals they are more than likely to have them before they ever strap on a mask.

There are several different bilevel machine models that deal with centrals besides just the ASV and maybe the doctor thinks that something with a definite timed back up rate with targeted volume is a better way to go about dealing with them if they are numerous enough or prolonged enough to cause a problem and won't go away on their own.

What I hate seeing is someone who has been on cpap/apap for 3 or 4 years and complaining all the time that they feel like crap and no one listens and we look at the software reports and there's a truckload of centrals because that means someone dropped the ball and the fix could/would have been relatively simple in the grand scheme of things.

Pugsy wrote:What I hate seeing is someone who has been on cpap/apap for 3 or 4 years and complaining all the time that they feel like crap and no one listens and we look at the software reports and there's a truckload of centrals because that means someone dropped the ball and the fix could/would have been relatively simple in the grand scheme of things.

ajack wrote:+1 ..you know my post was showing alphabet that he is too asv focused and it isn't the messiah of apnea?

Pugsy wrote:

ajack wrote:+1 ..you know my post was showing alphabet that he is too asv focused and it isn't the messiah of apnea?

...he isn't going to change.
Might as well be talking to a brick wall... Not smart enough to know that he doesn't know 1/10 of what he thinks he knows.
He doesn't want to learn because he really thinks he knows everything about everything. Probably thinks he walks on water too.
People like that you can't talk to or reason with and there's no sense in even trying. Just try to deflect any potential dangerous crap and otherwise ignore him the best you can.
If there is one saving grace...he's preferred chosen writing style sucks and hard to read....so maybe newbies aren't reading his crap.

Pugsy wrote:

ajack wrote:+1 ..you know my post was showing alphabet that he is too asv focused and it isn't the messiah of apnea?

I know that.
and you wasted your fingers typing...he isn't going to change.
Might as well be talking to a brick wall... Not smart enough to know that he doesn't know 1/10 of what he thinks he knows.
He doesn't want to learn because he really thinks he knows everything about everything. Probably thinks he walks on water too.
People like that you can't talk to or reason with and there's no sense in even trying. Just try to deflect any potential dangerous crap and otherwise ignore him the best you can.
If there is one saving grace...he's preferred chosen writing style sucks and hard to read....so maybe newbies aren't reading his crap.

Guest09 wrote: I manage professional engineers for a living

RogerSC wrote:Commenting on the original question of whether cpap can cause CA's, I had no CA's in my sleep study. However, while using cpap I've been having a few every CA's every night for over 5 years now, regular as clockwork. Not enough to worry about, not enough to merit the cost and overhead of tuning an ASV, but enough that I see them in my sleep data. Lately my AHI has been between about .5 and 1.5, and nearly all of those are CA's. Doesn't worry me, though I do find it a bit ironic. And I don't think that I'm unusual (peculiar, maybe).

Guest wrote:guest09 +11

but he is really entertaining - you have to give him that.

I didn't had the time so far to look at everything he wrote, but for me his story looks like this:
he was due for a new machine, went to some sort of sleep study and was prescribes some sort of bi-pap most likely a T or a ST. Evidently he decided that a titration is for libtards. (remember: Chuck Norris does not adapt to anything - even plain CPAPs adapt to Chuck Norris)
He unpacked the brand new thing and hooked it up with the factory defaults (or messed as much as he could with the settings). As he stated he had problems falling asleep - because the machine did what it is supposed to do. (there is a really funny read about his believes about the AHI while awake or during falling asleep.)

Some minutes later he decided the machine is broken and went on the road for the "next best thing". (Only a libtard would adjust the backuprate and the triggersensitivity - Chuck Norris does not adapt to a machine - all machines adapt to Chuck Norris.)
As he read some commercials about the more shiny looking ASVs he came to the impression that there is only one thing to deal with centrals - ASV - thus telling everybody that they need an ASV if they see even one central during the night.
(and than there is his affinity with the pulsoxymeter - as he seems to no longer have any device there is nothing more he can measure at home ... so that is only natural)

All in all quite funny - I wouldn't be bewildered if he fails the same way on his so desired ASV.

jnk... wrote:

Guest09 wrote: I manage professional engineers for a living

My condolences.

I understand that on the list of stressful occupations, "manager of engineers" ranks just above "professional herder of untamed cats."