Wulfman... wrote:shanobeigh wrote:Wulfman... wrote:shanobeigh wrote:Sorry. In lab it was the same Resmed S8 or S9 model I had in 2011. Tech said my max pressure at the study last week was 12. I still felt like I was being suffocated at 12. Does that help???
Which specific model machine do you have? The "S8" and "S9" are essentially "generations" of ResMed machines. Within those generations are specific models.......Autoset, Elite, Escape, Escape Auto, etc.
Do you know how to get into the setup menu?
I honestly can't remember. I don't even have the other machine anymore. Gave it away. I know it was silver with a humidifier & supposedly had a ramp feature but that did nothing to help me. I had no idea how to adjust anything - only knew how to turn it on & off. Like I said, had zero support from the pulmonologist then. Pressures were still way too high (15 then) & I couldn't tolerate them when they hit their peak & he offered me nothing more than, "just get used to it." Might have been the S9 Autoset from looking at pics on line. They just gave it to me & said use it. Was a dismal failure...
Do you actually have a machine NOW?
If so, which one?
Go to this link and see if you can figure out which one. Look at the one you have (if you have one) and find the model name and model number on it.
If you had/have a pressure of 15 cm, you could lower it till you become accustomed to it.
I'm posting again because the whole Bipap idea seemed to have gotten lost in the shuffle.
It's certainly something worth trying before resorting to surgery or quitting treatment altogether.
Most Doctors really don't know that much about cpap/bipap machines. Thet rely on the practitions and RT's.
BiPap (a respironics phrase for a bilevel machine) doesn't treat central apnea unless they are a specialized bipap such as the bipap st or ASV.
A bipap is prescribed for a couple of reasons. In COPD patients (emphysema and related conditions)...having the lower exhale pressure helps them expel CO2 better...which is a problem for them.
The other reason to use Bipap is for patients who don't tolerate cpap. And this means YOU.
So don't dismiss the idea completely. Secondwind cpap is a totally reputable company that many on this forum have used. Here's a link to a variety of Bipap machines...low hour, for under $600 Just as a possible source.
http://www.secondwindcpap.com/Used_CPAP ... Aj1g8P8HAQ
I know you're feeling overwhelmed and are suffering. There's no magic pills in all this, but if exhaling against pressure is a major issue, this will help.
palerider wrote:shanobeigh wrote:My question is, what in the world do I do about the anxiety from the pressures??? I literally can't control it. I know this is a knee jerk reaction
I don't know if this will help or not, but getting a little perspective on the pressure might help.
you mention a pressure of 12. what that means is, 12cm of water. 12cm is right about 4.75 inches. so, get a glass, put 5" of water in it. then stick a straw down to the bottom of the glass, put your lips on it, and blow... you've just exhaled against more than 12cm/h2o pressure.
that's exactly what 12cm is, the pressure that 12 centimeters of water exerts against the air... or how hard you have to blow, to push that water in the straw down 12cm/4.75 inches.
it's really not much pressure, but it's easy to think that it's a lot, especially when people are just throwing around numbers that you don't have any reference to understand.
I hope this helps.
Now my hurdle is finding a way to not feel suffocated by the pressures of the CPAP.
I have severe insomnia on top of the OSA - the insomnia has been a life-long issue. There have been a few occasions when I've been up for 36 hours or more straight. Not recently, but it has happened. Generally, I just can't fall asleep. It's not every night, but when it happens, it's frustrating. I can't fall asleep & when I do, the apnea events wake me up, then I have to fight to fall back asleep & it starts all over. It's a vicious cycle.
First let me say that I'm sorry that you've had so many struggles in your life and that the first time round with CPAP went so badly.
Next a few comments about couple things that you've stated more than once in your posts.
First you write:Now my hurdle is finding a way to not feel suffocated by the pressures of the CPAP.
It's important to figure out what you mean when you say that you feel suffocated by the CPAP.
Do you mean that there is so much air coming into the mask that you find it hard to properly exhale? Or do you mean that there is so little air coming into the mask that you find it hard to properly inhale?
People describe both problems as "I feel suffocated by the machine" but the approaches to fixing the problem are quite different. And the things that fix "too much air" are likely to make the "too little air" problem worse and vice versa.
Next you write:I have severe insomnia on top of the OSA - the insomnia has been a life-long issue. There have been a few occasions when I've been up for 36 hours or more straight. Not recently, but it has happened. Generally, I just can't fall asleep. It's not every night, but when it happens, it's frustrating. I can't fall asleep & when I do, the apnea events wake me up, then I have to fight to fall back asleep & it starts all over. It's a vicious cycle.
Dealing with the combination of insomnia and difficulties with adjusting to CPAP when you've got OSA can be difficult. I know that all too well---check out the "Taming the CPAP-induced insomnia monster link" for a bit of what I'd gone through and my standard set of suggestions on how to deal with it. The fact that you've got some PTSD problems, a history of claustrophobia, and a previous bad CPAP experience in past means that it is reasonable to expect that you will likely take longer to adjust to CPAP than many new CPAPers. But that doesn't mean you won't be able to adjust.
If you can get to the point where you can put the machine on your nose at the beginning of the night, fall asleep without more than your normal problems, and stay asleep all night, then chances are after a few weeks to a few months you will be feeling better than you do right now. You might never have a morning where you wake up feeling WONDERFULLY BETTER all of a sudden. For many of us the improvement in how we feel is gradual---sometimes it's gradual enough that a CPAPer may not even notice it until or unless s/he is forced to sleep without the CPAP for a night or two. So reasonable expectations are needed.
But getting to the point where you can put the machine on your nose at the beginning of the night and fall asleep in a reasonable amount of time may very well take some time. I'd suggest that you have a long chat with the new sleep doc (if possible) about all of your sleep issues---including the long history of insomnia and what you know makes it worse and how you've tried to manage it in the past. It may be that you will need to consider using medication (either anti-anxiety medication or sleep medication) for a few weeks to get over the hump of your initial anxiety about starting CPAP. It could be that you might want to use a combination of cognitive behavior for insomnia techniques, possibly combined with medication. If you don't want to take the medication every night for a few weeks, you could plan on taking the medication only after you've had a disastrous night. In other words, if you didn't take medication on Sunday night, and you had a real disaster that night (you define "disaster"), then take the medication at the start of Monday night. On Tuesday night, skip the medication if you slept ok (or even "sort of ok") on Monday night.
Good luck as you begin this adventure.
I hope that the bipap idea helps with at least some of your apnea issues. Just a little heads up. Just like with cpap and auto cpaps...there are also auto bipap machines. With your issues related to exhale anxiety...having fixed exhale pressure would be better then having the machine boost pressures on you. Even if you are issued an auto bipap, it can be adjusted to either disable the auto component, or severely limit the pressure range. Setting up an auto bipap is really an issue for your provider...but make sure he/she understands the goal. And of course there are many knowledgible and helpful folks here on the forum.
It saddens me to hear about your abuse history. But hopefully your new guy can help support you as you recover. It takes time.
shanobeigh wrote:Second, I should have been clearer regarding the pressures. They're too high. I feel like I have a pillow over my face when I try to exhale. It's terrifying for me. In 2011 they were at 15. Monday night during the study, they topped out at 12. Improved it seems, but exhaling against the machine was awful nonetheless.
You have a remarkably positive attitude towards the fact that you and your councilor realize that you have a lot more work to do with the PTSD issues. Your willingness to keep working on them bodes well. As the PTSD is treated, your anxiety about the CPAP should go down. And as you finally start sleeping well with the CPAP, that should help with the PTSD therapy. In other words, it sounds like you're at the beginning of trying to establish a positive feedback loop between the PTSD therapy and the CPAP therapy. I wish you well on addressing both the PTSD and the OSA and the insomnia.First off, thanks for your kind words. They mean a lot. This has been a nightmare this time. I knew it would be rough with my claustrophobia & insomnia like my past experience in 2011 but I didn't expect to have panic flare like this. I know it's connected to my past abusive relationship where these triggers were exploited to no end. I really thought I had done the work to beat back the fall out from the abuse, but it's shown me that there's more work to be done in that area. I guess that's maybe a silver lining - I've identified an area that is still not healed & could cause problems in the future so I can now try to kill it at the source. My counselor is reaching out to a colleague that specializes in trauma recovery / PTSD & is certified in EMDR therapy so we can tackle the remaining issues there using that model for a bit.
It took me a very long time to become comfortable with long term use of sleeping pills after my insomnia became intransigent and morphed from just sleep onset to a combination of sleep onset, sleep maintenance and delayed sleep phase issues. But in the end, I think my current sleep doc was correct when he suggested long term use of Ambien (before Belsomra came on the market) and then Belsomra.Third, the insomnia is only making this worse. Fortunately, this was shown to be very severe during my sleep study in Feb. This new doctor could clearly see my issues there. I've had the same primary dr for 17 years & she's amazing. Knows all the backstories & has really become intuitive with me. I was using Trazodone, but it a) made my snoring WAY worse & b) didn't seem to do a thing for the CPAP anxiety. Now we're trying Belsomra (which is STUPID expensive even with insurance, but I'll try it) because it's non addictive & she said people report not having anxiety on it.
What time did you get to sleep? If you woke up about 90 minutes or 3 hours after going to sleep, that wake may have been a perfectly normal post-REM wake. The critical idea with normal post-REM wakes is to NOT worry and obsess about them since that turns a 1-5 minute long wake that doesn't really disturb your sleep into a major 10-30 minute wake that does.She said to give it a week & see if it helps. It took me a little over an hour to fall asleep last night & I did wake up at 3:00 a.m. but did manage to fall back to sleep.
My advice to just chill out about trying to tie the wakes to the apnea events. You'll be getting your CPAP soon. In the meantime don't get so worked up about worrying about whether each and every wake is somehow caused by an apnea event. Some of them probably are, and some probably aren't. My point is you've been sleeping poorly for many years now, but you weren't lying awake wondering about the anpea and your breathing all that time. Allow yourself the luxury of not worrying about the apnea until you get the CPAP. Focus on the insomnia for now. Focus on the OSA and CPAP adjustment once you have that CPAP.I'm thinking that because this is a hypnotic, it may have been an apnea event that woke me up since I don't have a machine yet (will within a week I would think) & these drugs are known to make untreated apnea worse because they relax the back of the throat allowing the tongue to block the airway. I may use a sleep app tonight that I have on my tablet to see if I can hear an apnea event if I wake up & connect the 2 together.
Having a quality sleep doc whom you trust is critical. But do keep in mind that it took years for your sleep to deteriorate to where it currently is now and it may take several months to straighten out your sleep issues. Also if possible have a chat with your sleep doc about setting goals for your sleep: You may never get to the point where you go to bed at 10:30pm, fall asleep by 10:45, and sleep without any wakes until 7:00AM. So with the help of your doc, set some reasonable goals for what a good night's sleep for you actually looks like.She said if it doesn't work for me, we'll try something else & keep trying until we find what works. She knows I don't want to take benzos long term. Heck, I don't want to take anything long term - THAT'S where I'm a difficult patient, but in order to figure this out, I'm trying anything that could work. My new sleep dr (not the same one who was very dismissive in 2011) seems to want to do whatever she can to help.
I would urge you to have a bit more patience with CPAP. A lot of people take more than 2 months to fully adjust to CPAP and you may be setting yourself up for failure by giving yourself a deadline.So far, so good. She also seems to have a very good staff that is very focused on coordinated care & patient support. If I start to feel the way I did in 2011, I will bounce to another sleep specialist though. And if after a couple of months of trying I'm still needing anxiety meds to sleep, I will start pushing for an oral appliance that requires no PAP machine. That one thing would kill all birds with one stone, but since my insurance co sucks so bad, she wants me to try everything non-surgical to give her ammo to force them to pay for the appliance.
Yes, it does sound like you have a keeper. My hubby (who was NOT a CPAPer at the time) was wonderfully supportive and I would not be here today as a compliant PAPer if it had not been for his support and patience during my difficult 9-12 month long adjustment period.As far as the adjustment period, I have a wonderfully supportive boyfriend (prob fiancée soon, tbt) who also has sleep apnea, is on CPAP & had PTSD from 2 combat tours in the Gulf. To say he understands what I'm going through would be an understatement. He's the reason why the mask itself doesn't freak me out because he made me wear it - just the mask - to sleep so I could see that I wasn't going to get tangled up in anything. I tore it off my face in my sleep only because it was annoying. It's been nice to feel supported & loved enough by him that he's pushing me to deal with the apnea without being a jerk about it. He said he'd move me in & work with me every night until I was able to use it without anxiety meds & was compliant. I'm pretty blessed for sure right there.
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