Large Leaks???? Airfit P10 & AirSense 10 for her

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
User avatar
palerider
Posts: 32300
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:43 pm
Location: Dallas(ish).

Re: Large Leaks???? Airfit P10 & AirSense 10 for her

Post by palerider » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:16 am

Grouch wrote:
TASmart wrote:I would make sure the hoses are installed correctly. I think a leak rate that high could be heard.
I'm severely hard of hearing and don't wear my aids when using CPAP, so I might not hear it. However, I can't feel leaking air along the hose.
run a mask fit test, if that gives you a smiley face, then you know that you can get a good seal, and it's not leaking excessively elsewhere, and it's just an issue of keeping the mask on your face while sleeping... (which, admittedly, is the tricky part)

_________________
Mask: Bleep DreamPort CPAP Mask Solution
Additional Comments: S9 VPAP Auto
Get OSCAR

Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.

User avatar
Grouch
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:57 am
Location: Beautiful Santa Cruz Mountains

Re: Large Leaks???? Airfit P10 & AirSense 10 for her

Post by Grouch » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:47 am

palerider wrote: run a mask fit test, if that gives you a smiley face, then you know that you can get a good seal, and it's not leaking excessively elsewhere, and it's just an issue of keeping the mask on your face while sleeping... (which, admittedly, is the tricky part)
Well, that's the weird thing. As I wrote further up in the thread:
I can turn on the machine and immediately do a mask fit test and get the green happy face. If I then turn the machine off right away, I still get the Mask Seal frowny face in the report. I tried this a number of times and got the same results every time.

I would think that the mask fit test is an immediate reading. But I'm not sure how the Mask Seal is calculated. If it's calculated over a longer period of time (the entire night vs. since the last turning the machine on), then it might make sense.

This whole leak thing has come up with the new machine on the first 2 days of usage. They were fine with the PR1. But last night's values were a bit better than the first night. Maybe this will resolve itself.

_________________
Mask: ResMed AirFit™ F20 Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: CPAP since 2011, Pressure 13-17cm, SleepyHead

User avatar
palerider
Posts: 32300
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:43 pm
Location: Dallas(ish).

Re: Large Leaks???? Airfit P10 & AirSense 10 for her

Post by palerider » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:28 am

Grouch wrote:
palerider wrote: run a mask fit test, if that gives you a smiley face, then you know that you can get a good seal, and it's not leaking excessively elsewhere, and it's just an issue of keeping the mask on your face while sleeping... (which, admittedly, is the tricky part)
Well, that's the weird thing. As I wrote further up in the thread:
I can turn on the machine and immediately do a mask fit test and get the green happy face. If I then turn the machine off right away, I still get the Mask Seal frowny face in the report. I tried this a number of times and got the same results every time.

I would think that the mask fit test is an immediate reading. But I'm not sure how the Mask Seal is calculated. If it's calculated over a longer period of time (the entire night vs. since the last turning the machine on), then it might make sense.

This whole leak thing has come up with the new machine on the first 2 days of usage. They were fine with the PR1. But last night's values were a bit better than the first night. Maybe this will resolve itself.
Sorry, I missed that you had done the mask test bit, my apologies.

However, the take-away is that there aren't leaks in the hose, humidifier, etc, as was suggested, because if that were the case, you wouldn't be able to get a good mask fit test, you'd always get a frowny face when doing that, the fact that you get a good mask fit test shows that you can get a good seal, so you're just dislodging the mask in your sleep.

_________________
Mask: Bleep DreamPort CPAP Mask Solution
Additional Comments: S9 VPAP Auto
Get OSCAR

Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.

User avatar
Grouch
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:57 am
Location: Beautiful Santa Cruz Mountains

Re: Large Leaks???? Airfit P10 & AirSense 10 for her

Post by Grouch » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:51 am

palerider wrote: Sorry, I missed that you had done the mask test bit, my apologies.

However, the take-away is that there aren't leaks in the hose, humidifier, etc, as was suggested, because if that were the case, you wouldn't be able to get a good mask fit test, you'd always get a frowny face when doing that, the fact that you get a good mask fit test shows that you can get a good seal, so you're just dislodging the mask in your sleep.
No apologies necessary! I appreciate you taking the time to help.

Dislodging the mask? That's what it seems to be coming down to. And yet I was OK on the old machine for leaks with the same 2 masks - the P10 and the Nuance. And the P10 is still in place when I wake up and not leaking. I am a side sleeper, so know that can move the mask around more than back sleeping. Haven't tried sleeping with the Nuance on with the new machine yet. Just did mask tests.

I'm still stumped on the short 30 second test. I turn the machine on and immediately run the mask test and it tests good. Every single time and I've tried aobut 20 times now. Then I shut the machine immediately off. The mask seal in the report section after a good mask test is still a frowny face. Is the mask seal report done on just the previous session? That is the 30 seconds I had it turned on? Or is it an average of an entire day?

_________________
Mask: ResMed AirFit™ F20 Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: CPAP since 2011, Pressure 13-17cm, SleepyHead

User avatar
palerider
Posts: 32300
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:43 pm
Location: Dallas(ish).

Re: Large Leaks???? Airfit P10 & AirSense 10 for her

Post by palerider » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:18 pm

Grouch wrote:Dislodging the mask? That's what it seems to be coming down to. And yet I was OK on the old machine for leaks with the same 2 masks - the P10 and the Nuance. And the P10 is still in place when I wake up and not leaking. I am a side sleeper, so know that can move the mask around more than back sleeping. Haven't tried sleeping with the Nuance on with the new machine yet. Just did mask tests.
there's a couple things to keep in mind here, first and foremost is that the two machines are totally different in how they track leaks, as well as to what extent they care about the leaks. seeing a typical nights leak graph from sleepyhead from both machines would give us more to go on, because you're not leaking all the time.
Grouch wrote:I'm still stumped on the short 30 second test. I turn the machine on and immediately run the mask test and it tests good. Every single time and I've tried aobut 20 times now. Then I shut the machine immediately off. The mask seal in the report section after a good mask test is still a frowny face. Is the mask seal report done on just the previous session? That is the 30 seconds I had it turned on? Or is it an average of an entire day?
I don't believe that the mask test affects the report, that's based on your actual sleep session

_________________
Mask: Bleep DreamPort CPAP Mask Solution
Additional Comments: S9 VPAP Auto
Get OSCAR

Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.

prodigyplace
Posts: 1739
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:45 pm
Location: Central Virginia

Re: Large Leaks???? Airfit P10 & AirSense 10 for her

Post by prodigyplace » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:40 pm

The Mask Fit test only shows the seal for that test session. It is not stored anywhere and would not affect the Sleep Report leakage calculation.

_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: ClimateLineAir Heated Tube & Sleepyhead software
Please visit our sponsor, CPAP.com at https://www.cpap.com/ for all your CPAP needs.

User avatar
Grouch
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:57 am
Location: Beautiful Santa Cruz Mountains

Re: Large Leaks???? Airfit P10 & AirSense 10 for her

Post by Grouch » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:30 am

Day 3 on new AirSense 10.

First day with no frowny face! However, I was just under the limit, so it's not cause for celebration - yet! I am knocking down my leak numbers by quite a bit each new day.

What I tried last night.

1. Chin strap while I read before going to sleep. A no go, as it kept slipping off my head. Took it off. Never have needed one before.
2. Back to using the Airfit P10 mask. I love this thing and want to keep using it. My DME is sending the blue headgear, as the pink one is pretty tight. Yes, I have a huge head. It's possible that the mask is too tight and causing leaks.
3. Quit worrying about my numbers. I was exhausted and just went to sleep. Slept all night. Felt more rested this morning than I have on the previous 2 mornings. I can feel the difference.
4. Threatened the machine that I was going to dismantle it down to nuts and bolts, throw the parts into a box, and ship them back to my DME if it didn't give me better numbers.

I was scientist for many years and we lab folks are very superstitious about equipment status. You never, ever, say that a machine is running great in the lab. It will mock you by going into a complex crash within the hour. (It's OK out in the parking lot, just not in the building, where it can hear you.)

Threats work if used very sparingly. Creative cussing can also work. The machine has to know that you mean business.

My DME called me this morning about the new P10 headgear (male version rather than the pink I have) and we chatted for a while.
Several things that I asked about he thought sounded at least reasonable.

1. I am coming from a Philips PR1 machine that I've used for 5 years. Different manufacturers address some things differently. Plus this is newer technology. Breathing feels different with the AirSense 10. Not bad, just different. Maybe I just need some to get used to it.
2. Maybe the machine needs a day or two to break in. I'm just wildly guessing on this, but do know that other pneumatic systems I've worked with can need a day or two for seals to set to their optimum level. This is probably grasping at straw, as mask tests are fine.
3. The algorithm. It came preset to the women's. I will try changing the mode to autoset, rather than autoset for her tonight. Maybe along with my big ole manly sized head, I need a "manly" algorithm.
4. I'll give my sleep doc a call if my numbers aren't in reasonable territory by the end of this week.

Thanks for all your tips and clues! Much appreciated.

_________________
Mask: ResMed AirFit™ F20 Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: CPAP since 2011, Pressure 13-17cm, SleepyHead

Slats
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:55 am
Location: SF

Re: Large Leaks???? Airfit P10 & AirSense 10 for her

Post by Slats » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:34 am

I went through the same scenario as you, used same phillips machine with great results for years, I too use and love the Airfit p10, and had huge leaks with the Airsensense 10. I think the latter is more aggressive in pressure -it drove me crazy, having Sleepyhead report huge leaks.I stopped using the heated tube and I went back to the old machine.

Airsense pressure was 13, as opposed to 9.8 on PR machine. Who cares if my ahi is 1.8 instead of .5?

_________________
Mask

User avatar
palerider
Posts: 32300
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:43 pm
Location: Dallas(ish).

Re: Large Leaks???? Airfit P10 & AirSense 10 for her

Post by palerider » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:01 pm

Grouch wrote:I was scientist for many years and we lab folks are very superstitious about equipment status. You never, ever, say that a machine is running great in the lab. It will mock you by going into a complex crash within the hour. (It's OK out in the parking lot, just not in the building, where it can hear you.)

Threats work if used very sparingly. Creative cussing can also work. The machine has to know that you mean business. .
Larger computer systems are the same, the little personal ones, not so much, but you never talk about the big ones where they can hear you.

_________________
Mask: Bleep DreamPort CPAP Mask Solution
Additional Comments: S9 VPAP Auto
Get OSCAR

Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.

Mike58
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:47 pm

Re: Large Leaks???? Airfit P10 & AirSense 10 for her

Post by Mike58 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:56 pm

Your problem could be on the short tube! I have found on several tubes after a short time an air leak can develop around the clear plastic connection piece that fits into the slimline or climate tube. It’s a two part piece that swivels and air leaks. I went back to a swift fx with pillows for a few nights and I was back up in the high nineties switched back to p10, 80 every night.

Fill sink with water, wear the P10, turn on, hold that portion under water a little you will see air bubbles. - it’s a very poor quality connection/design when you consider what we pay for these units

Doug Williams
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:25 pm

Re: Large Leaks???? Airfit P10 & AirSense 10 for her

Post by Doug Williams » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:00 pm

I just finished entering a reply and rating of the AirSense 10 and RESMed. Further reading of the trials and tribulations of many people in this forum makes me wonder what we would do if we had trouble with artificial hips and the people involved all said "try this" "try that", etc. How about an auto mechanic tuning up your car and giving it back not running very well and saying "Play with it. You'll adjust in time." It seems to me the profession making a great deal of money off our sleep problems don't offer adequate service and we sit back and take it! It seems to me many of us are paying for some of our CPAP equipment. Is this true? My medical bills are currently 40% of gross income. Enough already.

User avatar
palerider
Posts: 32300
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:43 pm
Location: Dallas(ish).

Re: Large Leaks???? Airfit P10 & AirSense 10 for her

Post by palerider » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:34 pm

Mike58 wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:56 pm
it’s a very poor quality connection/design when you consider what we pay for these units
And yet, I've been using mine for over three years... still waiting for it to have a problem.

_________________
Mask: Bleep DreamPort CPAP Mask Solution
Additional Comments: S9 VPAP Auto
Get OSCAR

Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.