Increased heart rate when using CPAP

Hello, I've been using my CPAP machine for about 2 years now. Although it has helped my snoring, I've had very little change in feeling fatigued during the day. This may be due to the fact that I have RLS and periodic limb movements during sleeping hours (found during sleep study). Lately, I've noticed that I wake up various times of the night with an increased heart rate. Question: Are my settings not high enough? Too high? Could I have a different condition causing this unrelated to to sleep Apnea?

SkipperH wrote:Hello, I've been using my CPAP machine for about 2 years now. Although it has helped my snoring, I've had very little change in feeling fatigued during the day. This may be due to the fact that I have RLS and periodic limb movements during sleeping hours (found during sleep study). Lately, I've noticed that I wake up various times of the night with an increased heart rate. Question: Are my settings not high enough? Too high? Could I have a different condition causing this unrelated to to sleep Apnea?

Hi SkipperH,
From cursorily scanning through some of your previous posts, it looks like this may seem to be a recurring challenge. Last month you similarly asked about heart racing and it was suggested that you might need to visit with the doctor about it. Part of the problem is that your machine is not fully data capable and without oximetry, it would be hard for us to give you some perspective to approach your own self titration or self diagnosis. However, there are suggestions we can make that do not affect your pressure and have helped some of us.

One possibility, and I notice you asked about this before too, but just in case: I changed my C-flex to 'off' and found I did much better without it. The C-flex algorithm has a tendency to make my breathing race. I would wake up in the middle of the night breathing like I was in a marathon because my body automatically tried to match the pattern of the c-flex. Unfortunately, this is impossible because the c-flex algorithm anticipates when you're coming to the end of a breath and attempts to start my breathing just a little earlier with each breath. Hence the racing breathing. It would also elevate my heart rate. Once I turned off C-flex, my breathing returned to normal and I slept a little better. My AHI dropped from 6 to 3.

Another possibility is that ramp may not be helping. If your pressure is below 12, chances are you don't even need it. Try turning off ramp for a few nights and see you react. I find it more comfortable without ramp.

If you have moved recently, and the elevation is significantly different, one thing you need to know about your m-series plus is that it is not capable of automatically compensating for difference in altitude. So if you were titrated in Delaware (sea-level) and moved to Denver (a mile above sea-level), your titration for that machine will no longer be correct. The air is less dense at that elevation, so the machine has to work harder to provide the same pressure. The M-Series plus is incapable of discerning altitude, so it cannot automatically adjust. Most full-data-capable machines automatically compensate for elevation. That alone would be reason for buying a new machine if you have recently moved to an elevation that is significantly different.

If you have been in the habit of writing down you apnea/hypopnea and AHI numbers from the machine on a nightly basis, we might be able to offer some limited suggestions based on those numbers, if you will please post them, your pressure, ramp and c-flex settings.

Most of us are not doctors. I suspect a doctor would still suggest you visit a doctor, especially with heart-related issues, especially if turning c-flex off doesn't do the trick. There could be any number of things causing increased heart rate during sleep.

It may be time to consider getting a fully-data-capable machine - preferably an Auto - The S9 Autoset, the Sytem One Auto, the Intellipap Autoadjust and the Icon Auto all seem to be well-rated on cpap.com.

DreamDiver wrote:If you have been in the habit of writing down you apnea/hypopnea and AHI numbers from the machine on a nightly basis, we might be able to offer some limited suggestions based on those numbers, if you will please post them, your pressure, ramp and c-flex settings.

DD I don't think the Plus machine will even give the usual 7 and 30 AHI day averages. I think again only hours of use for compliance.
Though the cpap.com info says "advanced" recording I think it is only hours of use.. I could be wrong again though..

Pugsy wrote:

DreamDiver wrote:If you have been in the habit of writing down you apnea/hypopnea and AHI numbers from the machine on a nightly basis, we might be able to offer some limited suggestions based on those numbers, if you will please post them, your pressure, ramp and c-flex settings.

DD I don't think the Plus machine will even give the usual 7 and 30 AHI day averages. I think again only hours of use for compliance.
Though the cpap.com info says "advanced" recording I think it is only hours of use.. I could be wrong again though..

Ouch. Another reason to buy a better machine.

DreamDiver wrote:Ouch. Another reason to buy a better machine.

Yep, need a better machine and/or visit to doctor for the symptoms. There is no way of having any idea as to what might be going on. We can suppose all we want to but without any data to start with it is meaningless.

Maybe DME would provide data capable for trial? Maybe DME would provide oximeter for trial? Maybe should just go to the doctor and start the detective work there? Maybe if funds permit buy a data capable machine out of pocket to start the detective work?

DreamDiver, you were correct, I lowered my C-flex from 3 to 1 and have had no problems with increased heart rate. Sleeping better too! Question: is there anyway to completely shut-off the C-flex on my machine? Thanks again!

hi I have been using my c pap for two weeks, it is pretty nice it tells me how many events I have per night and time used. It is set on 5. At first it feels slow then later fine then later like I am struggling a bit. My heart rate resting is usually in high 60's to lower 70's. Now in the 80 area. Not to happy with that, I have coronary artery disease so my heart health is important. What do you make of this. Thanks for any feed back

Your low pressure of 5 is too hard to breathe at... bump it to 7 or 8 for a few nights and see how you do. And forget using the ramp at such low settings - all the time it's ramping 'up' to 5 (or even 7) you're not getting full therapy.

Dreamy12 wrote:hi I have been using my c pap for two weeks, it is pretty nice it tells me how many events I have per night and time used. It is set on 5. At first it feels slow then later fine then later like I am struggling a bit. My heart rate resting is usually in high 60's to lower 70's. Now in the 80 area. Not to happy with that, I have coronary artery disease so my heart health is important. What do you make of this. Thanks for any feed back

Hi Dreamy 12,
We need more information to help you. What machine do you have? Look for any words on the front or take the water out and look for a REF# on the blower not the humidifier. Is 5 a ramp pressure where it starts or is that the pressure where it stays all night?
If you would register and complete your equipment profile it would help others to respond. This link will help. wiki/index.php/Registering_Equipment_in_User_Profile

DreamDiver wrote: I changed my C-flex to 'off' and found I did much better without it. The C-flex algorithm has a tendency to make my breathing race. I would wake up in the middle of the night breathing like I was in a marathon because my body automatically tried to match the pattern of the c-flex. Unfortunately, this is impossible because the c-flex algorithm anticipates when you're coming to the end of a breath and attempts to start my breathing just a little earlier with each breath. Hence the racing breathing. It would also elevate my heart rate. Once I turned off C-flex, my breathing returned to normal and I slept a little better. My AHI dropped from 6 to 3.

Right there. CPAP changes the breathing rate. Wonder why it didn't make headlines on this forum coz someone always refutes when someone writes that they suspect CPAP makes them breathe faster?

deadEternally wrote:

DreamDiver wrote: I changed my C-flex to 'off' and found I did much better without it. The C-flex algorithm has a tendency to make my breathing race. I would wake up in the middle of the night breathing like I was in a marathon because my body automatically tried to match the pattern of the c-flex. Unfortunately, this is impossible because the c-flex algorithm anticipates when you're coming to the end of a breath and attempts to start my breathing just a little earlier with each breath. Hence the racing breathing. It would also elevate my heart rate. Once I turned off C-flex, my breathing returned to normal and I slept a little better. My AHI dropped from 6 to 3.

Right there. CPAP changes the breathing rate. Wonder why it didn't make headlines on this forum coz someone always refutes when someone writes that they suspect CPAP makes them breathe faster?

headlines? because of confusion and misunderstanding? please...

DreamDiver wrote:c-flex algorithm anticipates when you're coming to the end of a breath and attempts to start my breathing just a little earlier with each breath.

no, what it's doing is allowing you to exhale at a lower pressure, then it raises the pressure back up to normal, so that whenever you get around to inhaling again, you're not at a lower pressure that would make it more likely that you'd have an apnea.

sorry that it confused you.

palerider wrote:

deadEternally wrote:

DreamDiver wrote: I changed my C-flex to 'off' and found I did much better without it. The C-flex algorithm has a tendency to make my breathing race. I would wake up in the middle of the night breathing like I was in a marathon because my body automatically tried to match the pattern of the c-flex. Unfortunately, this is impossible because the c-flex algorithm anticipates when you're coming to the end of a breath and attempts to start my breathing just a little earlier with each breath. Hence the racing breathing. It would also elevate my heart rate. Once I turned off C-flex, my breathing returned to normal and I slept a little better. My AHI dropped from 6 to 3.

Right there. CPAP changes the breathing rate. Wonder why it didn't make headlines on this forum coz someone always refutes when someone writes that they suspect CPAP makes them breathe faster?

headlines? because of confusion and misunderstanding? please...

So you are saying DreamDiver is wrong and he just wrongly thought he found himself breathing fast to match with the machine?

deadEternally wrote:So you are saying DreamDiver is wrong and he just wrongly thought he found himself breathing fast to match with the machine?

I'm saying that he is confused about what's happening. the machine he's referring to is *purely* driven by the users breathing, there's no timed anything in there, all that happens is that it drops the pressure a little when the user starts to exhale, then after the initial exhale, it raises the pressure back up in preparation for the next inhalation. when that happens is purely, 100% up to the user of the machine.

unlike some niche machines that DO have a timed backup rate, wherein if you don't take a breath within a certain amount of time, the machine will switch to a much higher pressure (far far far more than the .5 to 1.5cm drop of *flex) and force a breath into you. these machines treat central apnea.... that's not what DD is talking about.

so, yes, DD is wrong about what was happening, the machine matches the user, not the other way around. whether he was allowing himself to get psyched out by that or not is a different issue.

The perception that cpap accelerates breathing is not completely uncommon.
At some point you get used to using it, and realize that the machine follows YOU, not the other way around.
A ventilator has timed operation, but the cpap is strictly responsive.
You only imagine the faster breathing because of ANXIETY.
You will sleep easier once you work through that.