Not really diagnosed; does this ResMed data help?

BabyApnea wrote: Lax ligaments would probably account for why I have sleep apnea

That certainly could be a factor.

tooth crowding

This is an indication that your jaw has narrowed. A narrow jaw leaves less room for the airway and makes it more susceptible to collapse during sleep.

I agree with kteague. Get a good CPAP therapy going and see if some of the other problems with sleep resolve.

Good luck,

kteague wrote:If OSA is your only or at least primary culprit, things should settle down. Yes, other things may be at play, but treating the known factors is your best bet for getting a clearer picture. Just wondering if the REM related stuff will resolve with healthy sleep. One question - Exactly how much was that "too much time in REM"? A journal to accompany your nightly reports might be helpful, noting things like daytime symptoms and any of the nighttime abnormalities you mentioned. Sounds like you're off to a good start using the machine and gaining an understanding of what's going on with you. Hang in there.

Thank you. Last night, I couldn't keep my sleep mask on for long because of coughing and also itching under the silicon and then. But my data showed almost all "clear airway," this time and just one OSA, six events an hour. So I'm guessing this is what is called complex or mixed sleep apnea? But mild. Interesting.

Thank you for your words of support.

Guess what! The ideal sleep hygiene is not the same for everybody. I also have a delayed sleep phase syndrome. If I followed the official sleep hygiene rules, I would sleep like crap. I had to learn what worked for ME. Going to bed at the same time every night does NOT work for me. I need to wait until my body is ready to sleep. Otherwise, I toss and turn, and I end up sleeping worse than if I had just waited until I was ready. While I do try to get enough sleep, I have learned the quality is a little more important that quantity. Just like with sleep apnea. 6 hours with cpap is way better than 8 hours, 10 hours, etc without cpap.

Thank you. The sleep specialist I saw -- the physician -- said that the DSPS is actually more of a problem than the sleep apnea because there are no decent treatments. I am in bed for as long as I am in part because I simply don't sleep decently until around 2:00, 3:00 am, then I sleep very deeply from around 5:00 am onward. I do go to bed early -- and end up awake for anywhere from a half hour to two hours -- because it disturbs my partner to be up and around and because my body and mind are exhausted. But it's not effective. It's not as though it actually helps.

ChicagoGranny wrote:

BabyApnea wrote: Lax ligaments would probably account for why I have sleep apnea

That certainly could be a factor.

tooth crowding

This is an indication that your jaw has narrowed. A narrow jaw leaves less room for the airway and makes it more susceptible to collapse during sleep.

I agree with kteague. Get a good CPAP therapy going and see if some of the other problems with sleep resolve.

Good luck,

Yes, the ligament issue is posited to be the primary factor in apnea that shows up in thin persons with EDS (and for some reason, we are mostly thin). That and I'm sure the crowded palette -- which is also a mark of EDS.

I'm going to keep it up. The data is showing me I need it. And the comments have too.

Thanks again.

BabyApnea wrote:So I'm guessing this is what is called complex or mixed sleep apnea?

I would not come to that conclusion without more data. Having some "clear airway" apneas is normal and you showed some nights with only one clear airway event. If you had complex apnea, it should have been noted on your original sleep study.

Will you go to User Control Panel and fill out your Equipment Profile?

ChicagoGranny wrote:

BabyApnea wrote:So I'm guessing this is what is called complex or mixed sleep apnea?

I would not come to that conclusion without more data. Having some "clear airway" apneas is normal and you showed some nights with only one clear airway event. If you had complex apnea, it should have been noted on your original sleep study.

Will you go to User Control Panel and fill out your Equipment Profile?

I see. But from what I understand, one night's sleep study is far from presumed to be the total picture. For whatever reason, I don't exhibit parasomnias in the sleep lab. And the Resmed data does in general show more events than the sleep study.

Yes, I'll fill it out when I'm less busy and more awake.

BabyApnea wrote:from what I understand, one night's sleep study is far from presumed to be the total picture.

Absolutely correct. My husband can tell you stories about the multiple nights he spent in a sleep lab, and they never got him diagnosed and titrated properly. Most people don't sleep in a lab the way they do at home in their own bed with no one watching and no devices attached to them.

What a good letter Zoocrew!

ChicagoGranny wrote:

BabyApnea wrote:my sleep study results showed only a mild apnea

Only a mild apnea?

By definition of the medical field, the lower limit of "mild" is an average (AHI) of five breathing events per hour.

Think about sleeping 7 hours nightly and having five events per hour. This is 35 times per night that you struggle with breathing, are awakened and then fall back to sleep. What if someone choked you and woke you 35 times each night? Does that sound "mild"? Under those conditions, do you think you could lead a healthy and energetic life?

Wow. Thanks CG! Mine is also mild and I never thought about it this way. My sleep doctor is terrific and she has been very encouraging. She has never indicated that being mild means it is inconsequential but I have a tendency to consider all of my diagnoses as not so bad since they are mild. Thanks for the perspective.

BabyApnea wrote:the Resmed data does in general show more events than the sleep study.

This happens sometimes when people are new to this therapy and they spend some awake time with the mask and machine on. These machines record data based on air flow and our awake breathing is actually very irregular when compared to asleep breathing and often the machine identifies these awake breathing irregularities as some sort of apnea event and often they will flag those events as centrals.
Hold your breath for 10 seconds..that's a 10 second "central" because there is no airflow but the airway is open. It will get a flag from the machine but it isn't a real central in terms of central sleep apnea because you aren't asleep. All it takes is a little pause in breathing to earn a flag.
Awake flagged events we have to mentally remove from our evaluation of our therapy. Awake events don't count.

Also it is normal to have what we call sleep onset centrals during the transition to sleep. These are real centrals but unless they are present in large numbers we ignore them. It's normal to have a few centrals and not have or meet the diagnosis of complex sleep apnea or central sleep apnea.

So when you look at your reports make a note of when you see them happening and if they are very close to when you turn the machine off or on then there's a good chance that the machine is flagging awake events and even though they do end up in the total events count....they have to be discarded.

Re: Sleep Hygiene

Rule # 1 of Sleep Hygiene - Keep breathing during sleep
Rule # 2 of Sleep Hygiene - Keep breathing during sleep
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Rule # 2 of Sleep Hygiene - Keep breathing during sleep
Rule # 10 of Sleep Hygiene - Minor improvements once you keep breathing.

Re: BabyApnea's diagnosis

I diagnose you with Quackerus doctoritus. There's a lot of it going around. You'll need to take a lot of extra effort to manage your own healthcare. Unfortunately, finding a good doctor is darn hard.

Re: AHI

Sorry if I missed it, but do you know your sleep study AHI number, other than "mild?" Get a copy of your study if you don't already have a copy.

Re: Results

If you're willing, post a copy of your SD card.

The text doesn't tell us much, but you apparently have AHI>5 without CPAP and 1.5 or so with CPAP. The Auto machine thinks you need an average pressure of 7.8. Sounds like you need CPAP.

Re: Mild apnea

"Mild" apnea is a bit like a mild heart attack or a mild case of diabetes. It doesn't mean you can ignore it. Even mild sleep apnea probably needs to be treated.

Also, AHI isn't the whole story. For some people, AHI=6 can be hell, and AHI=30 may not have any obvious effects. AHI just counts the number of apneas you have. One person with an AHI of 30 might stop breathing for 11 seconds, and then start breathing without much stress or O2 desaturation. Another person with an AHI of 5 might stop breathing for 60 seconds at a time, and have a serious O2 drop, heart stress, extreme sleep disturbance, and wake up in a panic every 12 minutes.

Re: CPAP

Realize that even if you do have apnea and get CPAP, you might still have other problems, and that it may take a while to recover.


Good luck, and keep after it.

Pugsy and archangle: thank you SO much for the valuable insights and support. And everyone else who posted in reply to my confused and searching post, especially Chicago Granny: thank you again, too.

I will fill out my profile and upload more data when I am able. Today was a bad illness day all around (so it was especially nice to check in here and see more great advice).

Many, many thanks.