Tongue pushing out teeth

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
JHA
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Tongue pushing out teeth

Post by JHA » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:19 am

Hi everybody,

- Before you read my post, please keep in mind that you should seek a professional to diagnose your particular case. You may not have the same diagnosis as me. -

I am brand new here. I am not new to my lovely cpap though. I have been on the cpap for around 5 years now. I have been going through a problem that I thought I would post for other users of these machines. Maybe this will help somebody.

After using my cpap consistently for about 3 years I noticed my bottom front teeth began to have gaps between them. I am in my upper 30s and have never had problems with teeth. They have been perfectly straight my entire life. I connected my teeth gaps with the fact that every morning I wake up with my lower teeth hurting. I figured out that my tongue was pushing as hard as it could against my lower teeth and was literally pushing them straight outward. It takes a few years to move teeth.

Before using the cpap, I would sleep face down with my mouth open. Since my mouth was open prior to using a cpap my tongue never had a chance to push against teeth. Now with a cpap and my mouth staying closed during sleep my tongue for some reason just pushes and pushes and pushes those teeth all night long. It was around 3 years of continual cpap usage before I really noticed what was happening.

I consulted my doctor at the sleep study facility and he had never heard of this happening to any patients before. My dentist tried to help me out by fitting a soft rubber mouth guard to my lower teeth for sleep. This didn't really help because my tongue is so strong. My dentist referred me to an orthodontist.

My orthodontist studied my problem and noticed something the sleep study doctor told me 5 years ago. My tongue is super huge. I have an unusually large tongue compared to most other people. Between my large tongue, the cpap keeping my mouth closed, and my tongue's urge to push against the teeth has caused this problem with my teeth pushing out further and further. The movement in my teeth is dramatic.

To stop all of this, my orthodontist recommend the following:
* Tongue reduction
* Braces
* Retainer (after braces)

I am not going to get the tongue reduction. This just really doesn't sound good to me right now. Maybe later in life if I can get up the courage but not now. I elected to go with invisible braces (Invisalign). I have been with braces now for about 1 month and already I can tell a major difference in my teeth. It will take almost two years of braces before my teeth are back to normal. After the braces get the teeth straightened out, then I will use a retainer at night. This all looks to be working and I am so relieved you have no idea.

I just thought I would post this in case there is somebody else out there with the same problem.

Scott

andreab
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Re: Tongue pushing out teeth

Post by andreab » Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:37 pm

Have you considered talking with a speech -language pathologist that specializes in oral motor or myofunctional therapy? You may have developed (or had since childhood) an undiagnosed tongue thrust. If that is the case, it can be resolved through oral motor exercises that strengthen the tongue musculature.
Best of luck

JHA
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Re: Tongue pushing out teeth

Post by JHA » Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:22 pm

andreab wrote:Have you considered talking with a speech -language pathologist that specializes in oral motor or myofunctional therapy? You may have developed (or had since childhood) an undiagnosed tongue thrust. If that is the case, it can be resolved through oral motor exercises that strengthen the tongue musculature.
Best of luck
Oh my. I have never heard of this. I am going to end up spending mucho $$$ on healthcare as I get older.

FoxNewsFan
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Re: Tongue pushing out teeth

Post by FoxNewsFan » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:11 pm

Scott,
I have noticed a change in my bite in the 5 months I have been using a nasal mask. I thought the mask was moving my upper teeth in by pushing on my upper lip. Now, I am wondering if it is my bottom teeth that are moving out. When I look at my teeth, I can't see any difference from 5 months ago. When I am on the machine, my tongue is usually stuck on the top of my mouth which should push my upper teeth out. Perhaps my TMJ is moving?

I have an excellent dentist but I haven't had occasion to go to him since I started therapy. Luckily, I have strong teeth in good condition. I wear a chin strap and this has occasionally caused me to bite the side of my tongue. I'm considering calling my dentist to have him grind off a sharp inside edge on one of my molar caps which is causing the tongue pain.

I know this isn't exactly your problem but we have some things in common.

Ed
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bette

Re: Tongue pushing out teeth

Post by bette » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:06 pm

I also have been waking up with my bottom teeth hurting. I have used a FF mask for about 1 month, so it it too short of a time to see if it is damaging my teeth yet. Good luck to you.

MichelleFL
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Re: Tongue pushing out teeth

Post by MichelleFL » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:10 pm

I am so sorry that all of you are going through this and must use a mask because of mouth breathing.. I wonder if you could get the mouth breathing under control if the pillow type mask that I am going to use when I get my machine can cause this very same thing??
Newbie to sleep apnea. Anxiety and panic attacks. If I can do it, you can too! It's not as bad as you think.. :)

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kteague
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Re: Tongue pushing out teeth

Post by kteague » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:02 pm

There's been discussion before on dental issues with cpap, and problems with larger tongues, but I sure don't remember the two being linked. Makes sense though.

Starting in the months before I started using cpap it seemed my tongue wouldn't fit in my mouth. When I had sleep attacks during the day I would come out of them with my teeth clenched down on my tongue, and it would take a few seconds after I felt the pain before I could unclench my jaw. Talk about pain! When with cpap I tried to practice sealing my mouth with the tongue against the roof of my mouth, it would bulge out thru my teeth on the side. It still is larger than it used to be, but is not nearly as large as it was for a while.

After a discussion of this on here I did some looking around and found that an enlarged tongue can be a sign of a hypothyroidism. My thyroid tested normal during that time, but just wanted to throw that out there in case someone else could benefit from the info.

Andreab - thanks for the info on tongue thrusting. Learn something new every day.

Kathy

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birdshell
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Re: Tongue pushing out teeth

Post by birdshell » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:44 pm

I don't know if I was, or am now, a tongue thruster, but I do know that my tongue pushed out my somewhat crooked bottom teeth as I grew. My brother had to have braces and, to prepare, had a LOT of teeth pulled. My upper teeth look perfectly straight, and always have once they were established.

My bottom teeth are still crowded and a bit crooked. I was using a Liberty, but found one rogue tooth (whose base sticks out and takes a lot of pressure there) was losing gum tissue. I had to have gum implants done on that tooth, and have no dental insurance. Just the way it goes, isn't it? I had it for years without needing any surgical interventions, and then when I no longer have it--that is when I learn why insurance is such a REALLY good thing. Image

I still push against my lower teeth with my tongue, and I think that the teeth won't move much more out. However, everyone's teeth shift with age and I'm no different! I have a few larger gaps that require floss if I eat something like chicken or beef, for example. And, my crooked teeth have a way of snagging one tastebud on the tip of my tongue.

Best of luck to you.

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S-Dubya
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Re: Tongue pushing out teeth

Post by S-Dubya » Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:18 am

Nothing wrong with braces as an adult! I am in my mid-30s, had braces for almost 2 years and just got them off in July. They say that adults now comprise over 25% of all orthodontic patients. Tongue thrust is a common condition. In some cases they use a small device inside the mouth to "re-train" the tongue not to thrust. Best of luck!

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JZ
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Re: Tongue pushing out teeth

Post by JZ » Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:01 pm

I don't think my tongue is overly large, but I have a small mouth so sometimes my tongue seems too big to fit comfortably. The tongue is such a strong muscle I have no doubt it can move teeth over time. Also, my dentist tells me that she has seen cpap users who have had teeth move over time from the pressure of a mask against the upper teeth. It seems really important for cpap users to get regular dental care from a dentist who is familiar with sleep apnea and cpap. Unfortunately dental care has become very expensive and most people do not have dental insurance.

Simultaneous with starting cpap therapy I began experiencing extremely tight jaw muscles during the day. My guess is that cpap therapy was so stressful for me that I started holding that stress and tension in my jaws. Two years later, my cpap therapy is successful, but my jaws still stiffen and hurt every day. Birdshell mentioned snagging a tastebud on the tip of her tongue with a crooked tooth. My problem is that when my jaw muscles tighten up, the side of my tongue rubs against my teeth and gets very sore. I learned that there are "specialized" tastebuds along the sides of the tongue and they can be very sensitive. My dentist has smoothed out the edges of my teeth on that side, but it has not helped.

chiku

Re: Tongue pushing out teeth

Post by chiku » Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:34 pm

I have the exact same issue, and when i discussed it with my doctor, he said he hadn't heard about this.
However i knew something is definitely going wrong.
Thank you for sharing, now i know i too need to see an orthodontist.

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postitnote
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Re: Tongue pushing out teeth

Post by postitnote » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:05 pm

Ouch! The tongue reduction sounds scary!
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SewTired
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Re: Tongue pushing out teeth

Post by SewTired » Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:47 am

JHA, the problem you describe is very common, with multiple causes and dentists aren't trained to recognize it so my teeth were ruined before I found out the cause. If you notice your teeth moving, make an appointment with an orthodontist to discover what the problem is BEFORE you screw up your teeth. I also need Invisiline rather than regular braces to fix up my teeth but simply can't afford it ($3-$4,000). A couple of hundred dollars could have prevented this, but who would have thought that the DENTIST wouldn't know?

edited to add: The most common cause is 'tongue thrust'. It took me only a couple of months to learn not to do it. This is the cause for many children getting braces.

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Jtlamag
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Re: Tongue pushing out teeth

Post by Jtlamag » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:35 pm

Hi, I am 39 years old, and I began noticing my face changing in photos two years ago. I also started waking up gasping for air a few years ago. I have been waking up with headaches for 5 years now. In 2017 my wife was diagnosed with colon cancer, and I spent a year and a half focused on her treatment, without any time or energy for my own issue. She passed in April 2018, and I began sleeping alone for the first time in 13 years. The photos continued to get worse, it looked like I was swollen on one side. I had wisdom teeth removed, thinking that was the issue, but my dentist finally sent me to an orthodontist. The orthodontist told me that my tongue had been pushing my lower back teeth out for so long that it reshaped my jaw! He wouldn’t even consider braces until my apnea had been addressed. This is awful, because my whole face has shifted on one side, and I’m single now, grieving, and very sleep deprived! I decided to try a mandibular advance mouthpiece as my first attempt to stabilize my sleep. It’s worked wonders so far. No more headaches, and I’m sleeping soundly through the night now. I hadn’t had a dream in over a year! I have a sleep study scheduled for next month, so I’m continuing to get this figured out, and hopefully my orthodontist will help me fix my bite/lower jaw issue. Anyone noticing any changes in their teeth, please consider a mouthpiece to protect your tongue from pushing. Sooner than later, I’m told I may need surgery to fix my face at this point

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Re: Tongue pushing out teeth

Post by Janknitz » Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:51 pm

I used a full face mask for a year or two with the bottom straps very tight to allow it to be loose on the upper straps so that there was little pressure around my nose, and since I tend to lie on one side in bed there was a very noticeable shift in my bottom teeth, creating a gap on one side where food always gets stuck and crowding on the other side. So yes, teeth can shift.

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