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General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
sleepox
 
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Anyone using pulse oximeters for monitoring sleep apnea?

Postby sleepox on Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:38 pm

Hi,

I am doing a research/development project in university for creating an easy way to use overnight pulse oximetry for sleep apnea monitoring/screening. I wanted to get a sense of what people's experiences are like with any pulse oximeters currently available so I could demonstrate that there is a need for a product like this.

If you do use a pulse oximeter, what device do you use? If you don't use one, have you ever heard of people using it before? If so, why don't you use one?

Personally, I tried out the CMS 50D+. I found its software/interface a bit clunky plus the device fell off in the night.
What were your experiences like with your device?

If anyone would be willing to share an example of data they collected where they actually had an apnea/hypopnea, please let me know.

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Todzo
 
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Re: Anyone using pulse oximeters for monitoring sleep apnea?

Postby Todzo on Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:29 am

sleepox wrote:Hi,

I am doing a research/development project in university for creating an easy way to use overnight pulse oximetry for sleep apnea monitoring/screening. I wanted to get a sense of what people's experiences are like with any pulse oximeters currently available so I could demonstrate that there is a need for a product like this.

If you do use a pulse oximeter, what device do you use? If you don't use one, have you ever heard of people using it before? If so, why don't you use one?

Personally, I tried out the CMS 50D+. I found its software/interface a bit clunky plus the device fell off in the night.
What were your experiences like with your device?

If anyone would be willing to share an example of data they collected where they actually had an apnea/hypopnea, please let me know.


I obtaind my CMS 50F specifically to screen the people I lived with in shelter - who I thought may have OSA, for OSA - and - hit six out of six. All had significant desaturations. The 50F is a watch like device with a lead out to a "rubber boot" kind of fingertip oximetery sensor and does not fall off at night. Bought mine several years ago for $250 - have seen available for $150.

I will try to find time to post some strips.

I think if I were you I would look into developing two technologies. First phonospirometery. Second either the iBrain or at least a "headband" which will do the normal Polysomnogram EEG leads. Go wireless.

Have a lot of fun!

Todzo
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sawinglogz
 
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Re: Anyone using pulse oximeters for monitoring sleep apnea?

Postby sawinglogz on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:15 am

I tried the 50E while I waited to get in to see the sleep doc. It showed some minor desats (94% down from 97%, with an occasaional 90%).

As people here had predicted, the clip-on stil isn't very comfortable overnight. (I went with the 50E because it was cheapest and I could stick rechargeable batteries in it.) The software was indeed clunky. I also didn't like the blinking yellow light all night, so I generally wore a dark sock over my hand. That also helped keep it on.

Annoyingly, my sleep lab only uses clip-on oximeters, which made the titration study even more uncomfortable.

I'm hoping Kevin will start carrying the 50IW again so that I can wirelessly record my oximetry along with the extra data you can only get from live recording.

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First Reviewer
 
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Re: Anyone using pulse oximeters for monitoring sleep apnea?

Postby First Reviewer on Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:23 am

Yes I have used a CMS50D+ ever since I started my CPAP Therapy.

Being a runner I was used to Heart Rate Monitors and Oximeters. So before I enter the World Of CPAP I already had some equipment on hand.

What I regret is that I had all this equipment for years and never thought about using it while I was sleeping.

I like using the CMS50D+ because it is so easy to use. I do put a couple of small pieces of Nexcare Flex Tape on either side of the oximeter to secure it to my finger so it will stay on while I'm sleeping. I have never had a minute's trouble while using this oximeter at night, and/or with downloading its data. The whole process seems very simple to me and only takes a minute, or two to complete.

So with that being said my Oximeter Charts shows very clearly a relationship between my Mask Leaks and My Oxygen % Level. The More my Nasal Mask Leaks the Lower my Oxygen Level Drops. I'm not sure that any oximeter reading could specifically denote any form of Sleep Apnea, although it would be a good indicator of something being out of order.

I am not a Doctor, and/or any type of medical specialist, but I would like to know what you come up with when you finish your research. I am going to do my best to furnish you with a couple of Charts/Graphs showing the relationship between my Oximeter and my Mask Leak Readings.

I wish you the best.





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HoseCrusher
 
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Re: Anyone using pulse oximeters for monitoring sleep apnea?

Postby HoseCrusher on Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:38 pm

Sleep Disordered Breathing has many causes. If the airway becomes obstructed this can cause a problem, but there are electrical problems that can also cause problems. Since there are a possibility of several causes of sleep apnea, it stands to reason that you need to monitor several areas of the person to figure out what is going on.

Areas that are monitored during a sleep study are

Brain function
Heart function
Respiration rate
Pulse rate
Oxygen saturation
Body movement
Limb movement
Body position

and there may be a few others. In addition a camera is recording your sleep.

A pulse oximeter measures two of these, pulse rate and oxygen saturation.

It can be argued that oxygen saturation and pulse rate are very important, but they don't tell the whole story when it comes to sleep apnea.

Using a pulse oximeter to screen for sleep apnea has merit, but there are those who have sleep disordered breathing issues that don't include desaturations. This means that you have to be careful how you interpret the results of the study.

I am a big advocate of people using pulse oximetry to aid with their therapy. I use a CMS-50E frequently to monitor how I am doing. I agree that the software has a "learning curve" but it seems to print reports that my doctor can understand and I can't ask for much more than that. I was fortunate to have been able to record several nights of sleep prior to starting xPAP therapy. This gave me a base line to compare to. In addition I have a cardiologist that has taken an interest in my efforts. He has extensive training in pulse oximetry interpretation and has helped me understand my data. I wore my personal pulse oximeter during my sleep study. When I printed out the detailed report and had my cardiologist go over it I was surprised at how his "trained eye" was able to pick out apnea events and his unofficial comments were very close to the official comments presented by the sleep doctor.

The key is to understand the limits of only looking at oxygen saturation and pulse rate when trying to figure out why someone feels fatigued all the time. Once you understand the limits you can then push those limits a little, or use additional technology to determine what is going on.

The bottom line is that if you have "normal" sleep apnea, a pulse oximeter may have a good chance of confirming that there is a problem that needs to be further investigated. If your sleep disorder is a result of brain malfunction or uncontrolled leg or limb movement, the pulse oximeter may not pick that up. The pulse oximeter is an excellent tool, but it does have limitations.

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sleepox
 
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Re: Anyone using pulse oximeters for monitoring sleep apnea?

Postby sleepox on Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:21 pm

After you start / started CPAP treatment, do you see any need for ongoing monitoring, such as overnight pulse oximetry?

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Re: Anyone using pulse oximeters for monitoring sleep apnea?

Postby 123.Shawn T.W. on Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:31 pm

I/We got a CMS 50D+ ... we used it to figure it out for my wife viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79708&p=725116#p725116

I plan on using it again on myself to be able to show the Dr's what is going on in my own environment ... as I'm still not getting rested while sleeping ...
"I am a man of peace, but if war comes to my door it will find me home." - Winston Churchill

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Re: Anyone using pulse oximeters for monitoring sleep apnea?

Postby HoseCrusher on Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:39 pm

I don't use my oximeter every night, but try to record a sleep about once a month. I review the data and if everything looks good I put the oximeter away for another month.

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Kate M
 
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Re: Anyone using pulse oximeters for monitoring sleep apnea?

Postby Kate M on Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:26 pm

sleepox wrote:If you do use a pulse oximeter, what device do you use?
If anyone would be willing to share an example of data they collected where they actually had an apnea/hypopnea, please let me know.


Last night was the first time I used it-- but I am using the Contec CMS50F. It has a wrist monitor and a sensor that stays in place better than the 50D. Yes, the software is a bit clunky, but the reports output looks every bit as good as what I have seen in my pulmonologist's office! Data can be imported to other programs like Sleepyhead.

I have not yet started using my CPAP (waiting for insurance) and know that I have nocturnal hypoxia, so I wear 022LNC at night. I wasn't sure how well that was working in keeping my SaO2 up since it does nothing to stop my apnea, and I was quite hypoxic on room air. Although there were still many dips in my Sa02 last night, and the # of these dips per hour seem to correspond with the AHI score I got in my sleep study last week, my Sa02 is not dropping as dangerously low on the 02 2L as it did on room air.

sleepox wrote:After you start / started CPAP treatment, do you see any need for ongoing monitoring, such as overnight pulse oximetry?


I will certainly do another (and probably periodic) nocturnal pulse ox study after I have started my CPAP because I will stop my 02 when I start the CPAP and I want to be sure I am not getting hypoxic with the CPAP on room air. Also, I would want to know just how low my Sa02 is with any Apneas or hypopneas that I have while on CPAP. Although an AHI of <5 is considered "normal" if My Sa02 was dropping into the 70s 4x an hour I would not consider that acceptable! If the apneas and hypopneas still keep my Sa02 above 88 or so, and I stay asleep, then who cares if my AHI is 4? That's the way I am thinking about it anyway!

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lindalrc
 
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Re: Anyone using pulse oximeters for monitoring sleep apnea?

Postby lindalrc on Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:30 pm

My husband was diagnosed 20 years ago in 1993 after his horrible snoring and gasping and my complaints generated a referral from the primary physician. At the first pulmonology visit he was sent home with an oximeter. The results were such that the sleep-study was ordered. i.e. the oximeter was used as a SCREENING TOOL. Obviously, as others have pointed out, O2 measurements are not everything by a long shot. But the question is, can it be used to SCREEN. Seems like the answer is yes.

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Kate M
 
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Re: Anyone using pulse oximeters for monitoring sleep apnea?

Postby Kate M on Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:00 pm

lindalrc wrote: But the question is, can it be used to SCREEN. Seems like the answer is yes.


I also think the answer is yes. The scenario you described -- having a Nocturnal Oxygenation Study using a recording pulse oximeter is what led to my doctor ordering my sleep study and my diagnosis.

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danmc
 
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Re: Anyone using pulse oximeters for monitoring sleep apnea?

Postby danmc on Wed May 01, 2013 8:08 am

I bought the one that goes with the resmed series 8 machine. It was a while back and I recall it being pricey but the correlation between oxygen levels and use of the mask spurred me on to be compliant. I would see the massive 02 drop after I took the mask off in my sleep and it scared the hell out of me. I used the tape that secured the sensor to my finger and the cords etc were a pain but well worth it. I should look at what is available now.

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Philip7
 

Re: Anyone using pulse oximeters for monitoring sleep apnea?

Postby Philip7 on Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:29 pm

Very Good - without registering - fantastic

I m 76 male, and have some appneu Normally my 45$ oximeter gives 96% daytime
After 15 second respiration goes up 98% zs it wa 10 years ago
After some work/execise even 99%

But sometimes - so much cheese eaten or fat -I wake up in panic <
with heart beat >88 , put the oximeter on my finger
and see that even AFTER waking up its cycling a few times 91%_89%

Probably it was even lower but it s not a memory device

An alarm oximeter would save lives and I m convinced
A warning APPS to WIFI > my Galaxy 3 would be fine

So because of this subject I ll going to buy one
One that gives me big electrical shock :)

I had this apneu much more when 5/8 years younger

Then i found out that I had good sleep after sex which is somewhat more rare at my age
So I took up masturbation again - my wife OK, happy I don t bother her
( with the help of sites like myfreecams°com )
which is recently scientificly acknowledged to be the best anti-stress method/miracles

and fabulous for a healthy prostate ( PSA less than ONE )

This is my 2 cts

Happy to hear your advise


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