Scary Thought

Jim Eads · Post by **Jim Eads** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:12 pm

So, I'm having a nice quiet dinner with my family this evening and this thought occurred to me...

When we sleep without a CPAP, we stop breathing and then arouse ourselves enough to breathe.

What happens if we are rendered unconscious for some reason and can't arouse ourselves? Do we continue to not breathe forever?

Should we be wearing a medic-alert tag?

Jim

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): CPAP

Brent Hutto · Post by **Brent Hutto** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:25 pm

Jim,

In my case almost none of those arousals are awakenings. It shows up on the PSG as a burst of energy on the EEG and I pop up to Stage 1 or Stage 2 of sleep. Without becoming "conscious" we can switch to the alternate, more aroused form of breathing that overcomes the obstruction. I think that mechanism would work during most kinds of unconsciousness (like passed out dead drunk or knocked out by a head injury).

NightHawkeye · Post by **NightHawkeye** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:34 pm

I'm surprised anyone would ask such a question.

[sarcasm ON] I'm certain that our medical health care providers would have advised us of such if this were a real problem. [sarcasm OFF]

The engineer in me says your observation is absolutely correct, Jim. I have read that time in the recovery room following surgery is a difficult time for apnea patients and many have died then, simply because no one was attending to their breathing needs when they were in that gray area between consciousness and unconsciousness. The anesthesiologists had tended to their breathing needs during surgery, but then had turned them loose before their nervous system was ready to cope with the special needs of apnea. The issue you pose is not hypothetical at all. It is documented fact.

Regards,
Bill

NightHawkeye · Post by **NightHawkeye** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:05 pm

For those interested in delving deeper into this, here's a start:
http://www.sleepapnea.org/resources/pub ... ticle.html

I especially like this quote:
"The worst case is that someone be transferred from a monitored area to an unmonitored area and they develop apnea episodes causing a medical emergency. It might lead to patient demise," Dr. Plevak says.

Regards,
Bill

NightHawkeye · Post by **NightHawkeye** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:04 pm

Not to alarm anyone unnecessarily, but this is even more alarming:
http://www.thedoctors.com/risk/bulletins/sleepapnea.asp

. . . and another:
http://www.apneanet.org/anesthes.htm
Here's a quote from it kinda dealing with the issue you raised, Jim.
"Since there is always the possibility that the sleep apnea patient could be brought into an emergency room and need surgery, when the patient is unconscious and no one knows about the patient's apnea, the use of a Medic Alert or similar medical warning bracelet or necklace is probably a good idea."

The reason I say kinda dealing with the issue is that the medical professionals in this instance only saw this as an issue related to surgery and anesthesia.

Anybody wanna place bets? I'm thinking this results from the fact that the whole issue was raised by anesthesiologists in the first place, and that no one has really looked into what the possibility of terminal apnea happening during unconsciousness really is.

Regards,
Bill

Moogy · Post by **Moogy** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:08 pm

Should we be wearing a medic-alert tag?

OK, where is a good place to get a medic-alert tag? You guys convinced me that I need one!

Moogy

deedster · Post by **deedster** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:55 pm

Do an Internet search. Auction sites are another place. There are small Medical Alert tags that can be worn on your keychain for about $5. The bracelets and necklaces are a lot more expensive.

I also posted a place a little while ago where you can print out a free wallet card with all your medical information.

snork1 · Post by **snork1** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:41 am

[quote="Jim Eads"]..What happens if we are rendered unconscious for some reason and can't arouse ourselves? Do we continue to not breathe forever?
......Jim

chdurie2 · Post by **chdurie2** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:40 am

moogy--when are you going to be anywhere where a medic alert tag would be necessary? i don't think you snore when unconscious (i'm thinking in the unlikely event of an accident.) and as someone else said, if you're in the hospital, you'll broadcast this to the medical personnel there.

NightHawkeye · Post by **NightHawkeye** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:03 am

snork1 wrote:I am sort of lucky in that I snap out of anasthesia way too easily. Good news is I wake up before much if any time in the gray area, the down side is waking up while they are still working on me...which has happened.

Like you say Snork1, waking up early from anesthesia is a good thing for somebody with apnea. One can ensure that this happens by asking for surgery without general anesthesia.

I had some surgeries prior to knowing I had apnea, and I asked for no general anesthesia. They wouldn't agree to that, naturally, but they verbally agreed to minimal anesthesia. The result is that I too was awake and alert before the procedures were over, but that wasn't much of a problem at all. I felt little pain, because they'd increased the local anesthetic.

The way I look at it, being alive is a pretty good trade off for a few minutes of pain or discomfort.

Regards,
Bill

J.Wayne · Post by **J.Wayne** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:11 pm

I nearly died due to an apnea event after having surgery back in October.
Due to the anestheia and pain meds that I was given and not being put on cpap that night I went into full respitory arrest and spent the next three days in the ICU.

J.Wayne

Moogy · Post by **Moogy** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:33 pm

J.Wayne wrote:I nearly died due to an apnea event after having surgery back in October.
Due to the anestheia and pain meds that I was given and not being put on cpap that night I went into full respitory arrest and spent the next three days in the ICU.

J.Wayne

J. Wayne--

Did your doctors know you had apnea? Did they take any precautions at all? I am wondering if a medic-alert bracelet is enough, or if I need to tatoo this on my forehead:
CAUTION SEVERE SLEEP APNEA: If using ANESTHESIA or pain meds, NEEDS respiratory supervison! Needs CPAP at all times when not wake and alert!

Moogy

krousseau · Post by **krousseau** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:20 pm

You DO need a Medi-alert or Rescue Blue anywhere you go. You don't know when or where you will need it. I have a Rescue Blue tubes in my vehicle with a window emblem to alert emergency personnel (there are tubes for each grandkid attached to their car seats too). I carry a tube in my shoulder bag with a keychain type emblem on the outside pocket zipper that contains the tube. The tube holds papers re medical history and meds I'm on. It is also large enough to hold a small ziplock bag with a day's worth of my meds.

inacpapfog · Post by **inacpapfog** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:28 pm

rescue blue tubes? where do you get these?

krousseau · Post by **krousseau** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:50 pm

http://www.rescueblue.com/

Scary Thought

Scary Thought

Tag

Re: Scary Thought

Re: Scary Thought

Scary Thought

Re: Scary Thought

Mask

Additional Comments: Large mask collection

Mask