Battery Backup Power System

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:36 am

Hello Fellow Hoseheads,

A few weeks ago I posted my battery backup system.. Well I was wondering how well it would really work so tested it for 8 days. The charger worked for 10 hrs to charge the battery when I was done. Most of the time to charge the last 5 %.

I have a Resmed Spirit and a PB420E. The 420E is new to me. Had it 5 weeks now. It is capable of operating directly from 12V as from a car lighter outlet or directly from a 12V battery.

Here is my set up:

1 ea. 12V deep cycle battery . Model 27DC 6. 115 amp hr $58

1 ea. Battery Charger . Schumacher Speed Charge model WM-1200A $42

1 ea. Battery case to fit battery $ 7

1 ea. All weather power outlet . Casco 212711C $ 8
OR Victor Truck/SUV 12V power outlet V5108 $12

Above purchased from Wal Mart
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1 ea 12V DC Adaptor Accessory Outlet with "M" connector #270 1533 $ 7
From Radio Shack.
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You may also purchase many of these items at cpap.com at much greater prices.

A note about the battery..I purchased a large (115 amp hr) battery because I have other uses for it and because I have a habbit of over doing things. Just ask my wife..LOL... It weighs 57 lbs. I operated my 420E from it for 8 nights or about 64 hours.. Starting voltage was 13.2 . I ended the trial when the voltage dropped to 12.6 . My test meter indicatd this as 75 % remaining..I figure I could have gone another 5 days if needed.. A deep cycle battery is condidered at 50% when the voltage drops to 12.06 volts. So I had plenty of capacity to spare..

Deep cycle batterys Must be cycled several times to reach their full capacity. If you buy 1 and put it in the closet it probably wont last long.. They need to be used.

If I were buying a battery specifically for a cpap backup I would purchase a GEL call battery.. These do not spill and are allowed on most aircraft.. They do cost a bit more . 50%-100% more. Also, 115 amp hr is a bit large for most people to handle. A 35 amp hr battery would be fine for a few nights.

MK makes sealed Gel batterys. Can be had for under $100. They store more easily , are non spillable and the Schumacher charger will work with them.

For travel small gel cell batterys, and sealed lead acid batterys are available . They will maybe last 1 night but they weigh only about 5-10 lbs.

The charger...The WM1200A is a automatic Charger / Maintainer. It is unique that it can charge a battery to 100% charge. Most transformer types will indicate a full charge when the battery is at 85% . It will also float charge when the battery is in storage...Switching on only as needed.

The connectors...the lighter outlet is standard automotive...Buy the one with the largest/ heaviest wires. I listed the truck /SUV connector because it is heavy duty and has a 17 foot length. Now you can place the battery in another room or outside your tent .. You get my point.. it gives you more options. The charger does have a cooling fan that sounds a bit louder than a cpap. So if you can move the whole setup away its more friendly..

The 420e uses a type M connector.. The radio shack 2701533 is rated at 2 amps. This connector can also be used in your car lighter if needed in a pinch.

So thats it folks.. Connect all these goodies together being very carefull around that battery. Its full of acid and if spilled could give nasty burns. Wear SAFETY GOGGLES. Be carefull not to short the terminals with a tool or jewelry ...It will turn a wrench red hot in 2 seconds and may explode.

Use with a Resmed Spirit :

The Resmed Spirit requires a INVERTER to produce 120 Volts from 12V. I only recommend using a PURE SINE WAVE INVERTER. Do not use a square wave or modified sine wave inverter as it may toast your cpap..

I have a AIMS 300 Pure Sine Wave inverter.. Inverters use more power to produce 120VAC. Roughly 10 amps DC for every amp of 120V AC created. The AIMS 300 inverter uses about 30 amps 12V to make 300 watts @ 120 Volts.it clamps directly to the battery terminals wsing 50 amp clamps. Not a good choice if you have the option of using a 12V cpap like the 420E.

You need a large battery if you use a Inverter !!

http://www.invertersrus.com has them for $129. Also see their FAQ site about cpap and other medical equipment backup power .

I have never needed to use my Spirit on a inverter and may never since I now have a 420 E..

A pure sine wave inverter weights 5-6 lbs. A cheap modified wave inverter weights less than 1 lbs. Thats how you can easily tell the difference..

Links:

http://www.windsun.com All kinds of battery information

http://www.radioshack.com Connector with m plug for 420E

http://www.mkbattery.com Battery info

http://www.invertersrus.com Inverter sales and some good info .

Thats all there is to it..Just add $$$$$$$$$$$$

If I wasn't specific enough for you or you need any help or have comments please let me have it .. I can take it...Oh I'm not an expert at anything so if you know more than I posted let me have it... Thats how we learn... the smart guys teach the dumb guys...

Cheers,

Chris

chrisp · Post by **chrisp** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:46 am

I know that I logged on before posting this ! Anyway , here is the backup power supply piece I promissed.

Cheers,

Chris

garym053 · Post by **garym053** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:54 pm

Appreciate all your research. I did quite a bit myself as I am an avid camper and prefer dry camping in state and national parks as opposed to camping at private campgrounds that provide power.

I would advise people to check with their CPAP manufacturer before going to the expense of a pure sine wave inverter. I called and emailed ResMed and they told me a modified sine wave inverter was fine for my CPAP. But I would guess it depends on the make and model!

I agree that an MK gell cell battery is best. I bought one, NOT CHEAP, but I can recharge it in the back of my vehicle while driving around sightseeing, so I guess it's worth it! I can get about 4 8 hr nights on a 105 or 115 AH battery using my inverter and CPAP.

As far as the charger- Yours obviously is, but others should make sure it's compatible to Deep Cycle Batteries!

Thanks again for all the details!

Paul B · Post by **Paul B** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:23 pm

Hey Chris,

Please let us know how you like the P-B 420 compared to the Spirit. I'm going to buy a second machine and I don't know whether to get the Remstar Auto with C-flex or the Auto 420.

Paul

chrisp · Post by **chrisp** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:13 pm

Resmed Spirit Vs PB 420E.. honestly I can't tell the difference. The 420E is a bit louder. I've had it for 1 month now..I've had the Spirit for 2 1/2 years. It is at Resmed now for repairs..been gone 30 days now...In fairness it had over 5000 hrs on it.. If I had to make a choice between the 2 I'd wait a month to see what Resmed is offering with the S-8 Pioneer.. Otherwise I'd buy the 420E cause it runs off 12V directly.. The humidifier docks to the resmed making it more compact . Others have had problems with filling the humidifier tho I cant say its been a problem for me...

The software is cheaper for the 420E..

Perhaps others have differing views...

Cheers,

Chris

wading thru the muck! · Post by **wading thru the muck!** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:35 pm

Chris,

You keep teasing me by mentioning the ResMed S8. Can't the at least throw us a bone with a little picture.

If you haven't already check out the Oct newsletter at cpap.com for a picture of the new integrated heated humidifier for the PB420 machines... similar to the Remstar unit.

https://www.cpap.com/DisplayNewsletter/17

chrisp · Post by **chrisp** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:28 pm

Sorry to say I don't know any more about the S-8 than you do. I've spent hours on the web trying to find more info perhaps from other countrys. No luck. I recently emailed Resmed Australia looking for a distributor in Thailand for 1 of our fellow hoseheads. They never replied... Kind of wonder about their customer service after that and having my Spirit off for repairs for over a month now with no explanation or update.. Perhaps we should write them off for these reasons...I am impressed with the new Arion that was mentioned earlier this week..Its still waiting for FDA approval. Battery powered and all. Looks like a winner. Hope they come out with a auto version soon..

I like my PB 420E . Embarrassed to say its French LOL

Merry Christmas fellow hoseheads !

Chris

wading thru the muck! · Post by **wading thru the muck!** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:52 pm

Chris,

Glad you're out there trying to ferret out info on the S8. Puritan Bennett the "French" company that made our favorite 420E autopap is owned by Tyco...the company that is being invetigated for a number of things including the CEO throwing a lavish multi-million dollar birthday party for his wife at company expense. I bet some DME and insurance executives were on the guest list.

I'm still holding out hope for the S8 and guessing it may be the first with an affordable oximetry option.

You have a fantastic Christmas.

Steve (wader)

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:08 pm

what about the venting? all lead acid batterys vent and the gasses are not good for breathing. It will even corrode stuff in the room near the battery. I have seen battery rooms used for solar systems that was a real mess if they did not have a vented battery box that would vent the gass out of the building. I use and optima blue top they do not vent. I am using it because I had it. when buy one for my cpap it will be a glass mat agm battery they don't vent and they last a lot longer then any other battery out their. I have had the power go out a few times and its not fun! the first time I had a nasal mask and by the time I woke up I was so out of it that I could not get up ended up with a real bad headache for about 4 hours. You think you would just breath from your mouth but I did not do that. The last time was with a full face mask and woke up from my sleep apnea I was able to get up and no headache the mask has a valve to keep you from rebreathing the air in the hose. The should have them on all cpap masks.

CarrieS · Post by **CarrieS** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:58 pm

My Computer has a battery backup is there any reason this wouldnt suffice in a power outage?

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:26 pm

CarrieS wrote:My Computer has a battery backup is there any reason this wouldnt suffice in a power outage?

It will work, but the length of time it will run will be low. Size matters. There is no subsitiute for AMP or Horsepower. Jim

Daddysaur · Post by **Daddysaur** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:31 pm

So.. it sounds like truck camping and running the CPAP off the truck battery will work with some driving the next day to recharge. That is my plan with jumper cables just in case.

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:55 pm

Daddysaur wrote:So.. it sounds like truck camping and running the CPAP off the truck battery will work with some driving the next day to recharge. That is my plan with jumper cables just in case.

Yes to a point but you may need to have jumper plans, if things get too low. When your out in no man's land, it pays to play safe. Jim

You never know when a battery is going to give up, until its too late. I have a car starter, I thought is was a joke, but it really works.

Machine