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General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
dianem
 
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How long until you see improvement in BP?

Postby dianem on Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:46 pm

I'm told that OSA causes high blood pressure... how long has it taken before you have seen an improvement in BP after CPAP treatment? I've been using the CPAP for two months (with about two weeks off for holidays in that time) and if anything, my BP has increased a bit. (Average diastolic up about 7 points, which could be random variation).

I have also seen articles that suggest that sleep deprivation itself raises blood pressure, so perhaps controlling the apnea alone isn't going to help, giving the other sleep issues I'm wrestling with. I have no other risk factors for high BP.

I realize it may be a bit optimistic to expect improvements so soon, but if my BP isn't improved by my next appointment with the doctor, scheduled for February, she's going to put me on medication.

Any ideas on what I should expect?

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kteague
 
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Re: How long until you see improvement in BP?

Postby kteague on Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:03 pm

That is so much dependent on other possible contributing health issues besides OSA. And you're right, continued insufficient or inefficient sleep can muddy the water. For what it's worth, my BP did not immediately drop with CPAP use. I have continued my meds, but at some point it did drop enough for one of my meds to just recently be cut in half for a trial period to see how the readings go. I too have other sleep issues, and I believe they have hindered my progress in lowering my BP. However, some good sleep must be better than none at all since I am going in the right direction. I guess it will depend on how high yours is whether the doctor thinks it is ok to wait and see. Hope yours starts a downward trend.

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bearded_two
 
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Re: How long until you see improvement in BP?

Postby bearded_two on Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:25 pm

CPAP will frequently clear up certain conditions, such as GERD. CPAP [s]can[/s] reduce blood pressure and several other conditions. You should know before February if CPAP will help your blood pressure.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 182658.htm

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Gerald
 
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Re: How long until you see improvement in BP?

Postby Gerald on Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:14 pm

Diane....

Are you using software to check your AHI score every night? If not, you need to be sure you have a machine that will give you full data....and get the software to go with it. You might also strongly consider purchasing a recording oximeter...like the SPO-7500 from Turner Medical.

My experience has been....that if my AHI is not consistently below 2.5, I'm not getting enough O2 to keep my blood saturation level at or above 93% all night.

If my O2 levels are below 93%, my stress level goes up......and my BP stays high.....and I'm up to pee in the middle of the night.

If you don't have software to record your experience every night, you're simply guessing. Without gauges, your therapy is like trying to fly a plane without instruments.....or driving in the dark without headlights.

Gerald

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Muse-Inc
 
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Re: How long until you see improvement in BP?

Postby Muse-Inc on Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:27 pm

At diagnosis Apr07, my BP was 210/110 (115?); put on <1800 mgs sodium/day, angiotension receptor blocker (ARB), diuretic. Now, it averages 130/70. I still take a diuretic and don't salt (or eat deli meats or processed foods) but I still have a lot of excess wt; docs think I'll be able to drop it after losing another 30-40#s....time will tell. Oh yeah, my BP was so high at night, I hadda get up to pee 8-10 times a night -- stopped on night 1 of CPAP therapy and has never returned...yeah! Took me many months to drop the ARB dosage in half, months more to half again, then by month 18 or so I stopped taking it. I hope you have the same good results from CPAP therapy!

This is a good article on the sort of hypertenstion we hoseheads get from our OSA: http://eon.businesswire.com/portal/site/eon/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090622005507&newsLang=en

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dianem
 
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Re: How long until you see improvement in BP?

Postby dianem on Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:13 pm

Gerald wrote:If you don't have software to record your experience every night, you're simply guessing. Without gauges, your therapy is like trying to fly a plane without instruments.....or driving in the dark without headlights.

I only see my 7 day average AHI; can't see daily results without the software and I can't get the software without a prescription that specifically calls for it, according to my supplier, so I need to find a doctor who will prescribe it. But my 7 day average is good -- consistently between 2 and 2.5.

dianem
 
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Re: How long until you see improvement in BP?

Postby dianem on Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:19 pm

Muse-Inc wrote:At diagnosis Apr07, my BP was 210/110 (115?); put on <1800 mgs sodium/day, angiotension receptor blocker (ARB), diuretic. Now, it averages 130/70. I still take a diuretic and don't salt (or eat deli meats or processed foods) but I still have a lot of excess wt; docs think I'll be able to drop it after losing another 30-40#s....time will tell. Oh yeah, my BP was so high at night, I hadda get up to pee 8-10 times a night -- stopped on night 1 of CPAP therapy and has never returned...yeah! Took me many months to drop the ARB dosage in half, months more to half again, then by month 18 or so I stopped taking it. I hope you have the same good results from CPAP therapy!


That's an amazing improvement! My BP is nowhere near as high -- it averages about 160/100 and has been as high as 170/110. But I'm in good shape, BMI 21, and don't eat a lot of salt.

Is it the high BP that makes you get up to pee all the time? I didn't know that. That's definitely gone away since I started CPAP, but the BP is still the same.

I'll try to be patient and see how things go...

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LSAT
 
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Re: How long until you see improvement in BP?

Postby LSAT on Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:21 pm

bearded_two said..."CPAP will frequently clear up certain conditions, such as GERD"

Boy...I'd like to see some documentation on this...I've participated in GERD/Barretts message boards for 7 years and have never seen or heard of this. I can't see ANY relationship between acid reflux and sleep apnia. :?


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Muse-Inc
 
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Re: How long until you see improvement in BP?

Postby Muse-Inc on Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:26 pm

GERD is often dramatically improved or eliminated with significant reductions in carbohydrate consumption. Worth investigating.

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Muse-Inc
 
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Re: How long until you see improvement in BP?

Postby Muse-Inc on Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:36 pm

dianem wrote:...Is it the high BP that makes you get up to pee all the time? I didn't know that. That's definitely gone away since I started CPAP, but the BP is still the same.

I'll try to be patient and see how things go...

When you experience oxygen deprivation, your BP goes up often dramatically (along with stress hormones) to compensate. When it reaches a certain level or stays there long enough, the brain freaks and sends messages to the kidney to reduce blood volume, nocturia-increased urine production, hence ya gotta pee...if it's bad enough, ya gotta pee often. Eventually, the nightime increase in BP spills over into the daytime and you end up diagnosed with essential (meaning I don't know why you have it) hypertension.

As Gerald posted, when his overnight AHI is above a certain threshold, he feels lousy and his BP (I bet mostly systolic) is raised. Mine appears to flucuate the same way. On unemployment, I cannot buy the BP monitor or recording oximeter I want to buy to test this theory. If I can determine my AHI threshold, then I can selectively take my angiotenstion receptor blocker when I exceed that threshold to normalize that situation the next day. I do believe that at least in my case it's limited to the day following the sleep session where I exceed that threshold. Now, the rise in systolic is only 5-10 pts.

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Pugsy
 
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Re: How long until you see improvement in BP?

Postby Pugsy on Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:39 pm

What machine do you have? 7 day average? Is it a Respironics machine of some type? If so EncoreViewer software is available and you do not need a prescription to get it. I have the software. I didn't need an RX.

Regarding BP. My BP was running about like yours and had been for over 2 years. I started CPAP the last of May.
Very gradual lesser numbers were random until just a couple of weeks ago and I had a 120/70 at the doctors office. So about 5 months of 100% compliance since May. No meds and no diet changes and no weight loss. So I do believe that CPAP was a strong factor in the reduction. Give yours some time. Of course OSA is not the only thing that causes increased blood pressure but you might get it reduced to acceptable levels by February. It is a very gradual thing. So don't give up hope yet that the BP might come down.

And yes, my multiple trips to the bathroom during the night immediately ceased with the start of cpap but the blood pressure was very slow to come down. Elevated BP by itself doesn't cause the frequent trips though. Those trips are caused by the stress of the events making the heart work harder and also some increase in a hormone that tells the kidneys to work harder and when they work harder, they produce more urine.

With Respironics M series machines you can reset that 7 day average to zero to give you a single night's numbers if you wish. Your report AHI average of 2.5 is very good though.

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dianem
 
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Re: How long until you see improvement in BP?

Postby dianem on Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:20 am

Pugsy wrote:What machine do you have? 7 day average? Is it a Respironics machine of some type? If so EncoreViewer software is available and you do not need a prescription to get it. I have the software. I didn't need an RX.

Yes, I have the M-Series Pro. My current supplier can not sell me the software and card reader without a prescription from my doctor, or so they claim. Maybe they are just saying that, or maybe the requirements are different here in Canada. But if you say a scrip isn't required, I'll just order it online -- the price is about the same anyway and it will save me taking time off work to go pick it up anyway. Thanks!

d.

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Pugsy
 
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Re: How long until you see improvement in BP?

Postby Pugsy on Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:46 am

dianem wrote:Yes, I have the M-Series Pro. My current supplier can not sell me the software and card reader without a prescription from my doctor, or so they claim. Maybe they are just saying that, or maybe the requirements are different here in Canada. But if you say a scrip isn't required, I'll just order it online -- the price is about the same anyway and it will save me taking time off work to go pick it up anyway. Thanks!


No script required. Don't forget you need the card reader also. Can't scrimp in it.

cpap.com offers the bundle of the software and the card reader. It is where I bought from. I didn't check around until too late but I think I saw the bundle for around $139 elsewhere and cpap.com says they will price match if you show them what to match to.

Since you are in Canada make sure that whoever you get it from will use the US Post office for shipping. That should eliminate any potential broker fees.

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Irene P.
 
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Re: How long until you see improvement in BP?

Postby Irene P. on Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:43 pm

If I understand your post correctly, you took a vacation from cpap for about two weeks for holidays. I know that doesn't relate to your question, but it really bothers me, so thought I'd comment. I've only been on cpap since May, but I'd never consider taking a vacation without my cpap equipment. I can only imagine I'd be worrying all night whether I was starving my brain of oxygen, and I wouldn't be able to sleep. Besides, even though it's an inconvenience, I haven't slept as well for years as I do with cpap. I hope you'll consider taking it on your next holiday.

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Re: How long until you see improvement in BP?

Postby tattooyu on Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:11 pm

For me, the night time pee-pee trips stopped on day one as well. Although I didn't have them every night, they were certainly frequent enough. My BP fluctuates a lot (labile hypertension), because I have GAD and panic disorder. However, I find that my BP is mostly easier to control now that I've been on CPAP since February 2009. At home, at rest, it's almost always 118/68 to 125/75.

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