I am so mad I could chew nails and spit out carpet tacks!

[Joy_Of_Sleep]

Hi. I realize that's not much of an introduction for a first-time poster, but I really feel I can vent my frustration here.

I just got off the phone with my DME. I've been on CPAP since Jan 15, and I ordered my card reader and software a couple of days ago. I could see the lovely Encore Pro Smartcard just sitting there with all of its wonderful data waiting to be unlocked and educate me. I was salivating when the package with the equipment arrived today. I suppose I should have done more research; imagine my surprise to discover my machine gathers little of significance accessible with the EncoreViewer software. It is virtually all compliance data. I KNOW I'm compliant...I was there.

Anyway, I called the DME to ask about switching out machines for an M Series Pro. From her reaction, you would have thought I said I was about to perform my own brain surgery! She told me I had no need to know anything about AHI, AI, snoring or leak events, that being information that was only necessary for "professionals" doing titration. She indicated she would tell me what I need to know when she changes out my Smartcard on the 15th.

Grrr. I'm a reasonably intelligent, competent, professional, um, seasoned, woman. Why is it so difficult to fathom that I might want to be proactive and have some input in my own therapy? The sleep doc and his nurse practitioner encouraged me to educate myself and participate; I can't believe I hit this particular brick wall.

Sorry for the rant, and thanks for the great forum!

[elader]

What machine do you have now? If you have the plus, all you get is 'hours of use' data. Your DME is not your friend. They want you to have the cheapest machine as they make more money on that from your provider. What you need is an Rx from your doc that says you need a data capable machine.

it doesn't have to even be a sleep doc. Go to your GP, say some days you feel terrible, wake up with headaches, some days good and you want to monitor your progress on the machine to see if they correlate. Thus you want to get your DME to swap out the machine. The DME can kiss your ass at that point, you are entitled to get the machine your doc prescribes.

Now your insurance provider may want to talk to your doc, but this is not an unreasonable request -

[Wulfman]

Hi. I realize that's not much of an introduction for a first-time poster, but I really feel I can vent my frustration here.

I just got off the phone with my DME. I've been on CPAP since Jan 15, and I ordered my card reader and software a couple of days ago. I could see the lovely Encore Pro Smartcard just sitting there with all of its wonderful data waiting to be unlocked and educate me. I was salivating when the package with the equipment arrived today. I suppose I should have done more research; imagine my surprise to discover my machine gathers little of significance accessible with the EncoreViewer software. It is virtually all compliance data. I KNOW I'm compliant...I was there.

Anyway, I called the DME to ask about switching out machines for an M Series Pro. From her reaction, you would have thought I said I was about to perform my own brain surgery! She told me I had no need to know anything about AHI, AI, snoring or leak events, that being information that was only necessary for "professionals" doing titration. She indicated she would tell me what I need to know when she changes out my Smartcard on the 15th.

Grrr. I'm a reasonably intelligent, competent, professional, um, seasoned, woman. Why is it so difficult to fathom that I might want to be proactive and have some input in my own therapy? The sleep doc and his nurse practitioner encouraged me to educate myself and participate; I can't believe I hit this particular brick wall.

Sorry for the rant, and thanks for the great forum!

Welcome to the forum.

She isn't going to be able to tell you anything you haven't already found......."compliance data".
Now is the time to get your machine swapped out......before your first month of use is up.
Ask her why people with diabetes are able to monitor THEIR therapy.
Ask her why the manufacturers MAKE the machines with FULL data capabilities.
Ask her how you're supposed to be proactive with your therapy when your sleep doctor and nurse practitioner want you to be.

The DMEs make more profit from handing out the lowest-end machines because your insurance is going to pay the same amount regardless of which CPAP machine you got. (I'm sure you already figured that one out)

Den

[Perchancetodream]

Most machines are leased for the first thirteen months. Tell your DME that you want a machine that provides you the data and that if need be you will have your doctor write a Rx with the specific machine you want included. And that you will then return their machine and use another supplier. (That is assuming that you know which machine you want and your doctor agrees with you.)

[rested gal]

The kind of patronizing attitude the DME is showing would burn me up. I'd be looking for a different DME store before the sun went down. There would be nothing I'd love better than plunking that machine down on the first DME's counter and telling them, "Since you said you won't swap the Plus for the Pro, I've found a provider who will let me have a Pro. You just lost all my business for years to come. Here's your machine back."

If you're absolutely stuck with having to deal with that particular store, I'd try enlisting the aid of your doctor or the nurse practitioner. Explain to them what has happened and ask if your prescription can be re-written to specify a particular model of machine. Might be that just a simple phone call from the doctor's office, instructing the DME to swap you a Pro for the Plus would get the job done. DME's would want to keep doctors (and doctors' reps, like the NP) happy, I'd think.

Or, if you are in a financial position to do so, buy the machine you want, out of your own pocket, from an online vendor like cpap.com or on cpapauction.com or a Craigs list in your area.

Anyway, now's the time to get into high gear to get the swap made. There comes a cut-off point in time when other DMEs would be reluctant to take you on as a new customer. After the first DME has been collecting several months on a one year rental, it would reduce the profit a new DME could make if they took you on in midstream.

You've probably already seen this, but if not...
My list of machines that record "full data" and those that don't -- as of October 2008:
viewtopic.php?p=307168#p307168

[Joy_Of_Sleep]

Thanks for all the great suggestions! My first plan is to speak with my insurance company myself tomorrow and see exactly what their deal is. When I first started, I was in such a sleep-deprived state that I let the DME, doctors and insurance provider lead me around by the nose, but now that some of the fog is lifting, I'm in better shape to know what's going on. I DO have some days that are better than others, days when I'm just dying to take a nap all day as opposed to those days when I get up ready to take on the world. I wanted to see what the difference was on paper, and what I could do to fix problems as they arise without waiting weeks or months for doctor's appointments or other sleep studies or what-have-you.

After I have the answers I need from the insurance company, depending on what they say, I may end up just buying a data-capable APAP myself. The sleep doctor had mentioned APAP casually during my consult with him and the NP. He was concerned that I would have to bear the brunt of that cost out-of-pocket, which is why he didn't order it to begin with. I travel for work a LOT, and am not often near home and a fixed DME for support, so it is more than justifiable for me to monitor my own therapy. If I have to bear the cost, I will. I won't like it, but I can do it. That DME didn't realize that I don't respond well to patronage.

I don't have a lot of time to play with; I travel for work again on Sunday and will be gone for 90 days. I have to get this resolved this week.

[Paul56]

Anyway, I called the DME to ask about switching out machines for an M Series Pro. From her reaction, you would have thought I said I was about to perform my own brain surgery! She told me I had no need to know anything about AHI, AI, snoring or leak events, that being information that was only necessary for "professionals" doing titration. She indicated she would tell me what I need to know when she changes out my Smartcard on the 15th.

My answers to the DME about that:

"If my machine only collects compliance data then no one, including you Mr. DME, will know if my treatment is successful on an ongoing basis. I can do business with you... or someone else... the point being I need a DME that is going to work with me on this for the good of my health. Are you willing to do that?"

If the answer is no then I'm outa there.

[AuntieNae]

Hang in there ..

I started with the Plus not knowing any better. After struggling and finding this forum, I went back to my Doc. I complained that I was not sleeping well yet and explained the Pro and Auto models for data recording. I had the prescription in my hands the next day. The DME gave me an Auto for a 30 day loan, I called my Doc up saying I wanted to keep it. 30 days later, I had my current Auto.

It can happen!

[carbonman]

I can't believe I hit this particular brick wall.
Sorry for the rant, and thanks for the great forum!

First, welcome!
Second, don't be sorry. We know.
Third and most important.....

tell your GP or sleep doc, which everone will work w/you,
to rewrite your 'script for "Apap of patients choice"
then TELL the DME which one you would like.

Very simple, really.

.....oh, the stain on the brick wall you just hit.....is mine.

As it is written, so shall it be.

[Debjax]

Now your insurance provider may want to talk to your doc, but this is not an unreasonable request -

Actually, since it's in the first month, I don't think the insurance will kick, since she is in "trial phase". the Insurance company pays the same amount, regardless. If necessary, switch to a new DME before the month is out.

Cripes, my DME told me she'd switch out my M Pro for an Elite II like my husband's, just because I liked that his machine is quieter and his travel case is better....I just can't bring myself to make her do it, the machine I have is working quite nicely...

[GumbyCT]

Thanks for all the great suggestions! My first plan is to speak with my insurance company myself tomorrow and see exactly what their deal is. ...

After I have the answers I need from the insurance company, depending on what they say, I may end up just buying a data-capable APAP myself. The sleep doctor had mentioned APAP casually during my consult with him and the NP. He was concerned that I would have to bear the brunt of that cost out-of-pocket, which is why he didn't order it to begin with. ...

I don't have a lot of time to play with; I travel for work again on Sunday and will be gone for 90 days. I have to get this resolved this week.

Sounds like you know the place to start is with your Insurance, so you know the facts. But the next call should be to ask your doc to script for a specific data capable machine. Many docs do NOT know that they can request a specific make & model. But your doc did hint he would be OK with APAP. Definitely worth the call.

If it were me I would print our RG's list and start at the top. If you then have to buy out-of-pocket you can get another data machine for travel, which IS the way to go.
1. In case the travel machine gets lost or damaged.
2. It makes packing up sooo much easier. Esp. if they are like machines.

Don't worry if your DME claims he will have to order the machine - he will have to provide what the doc ordered. At least you should have a machine to use meanwhile. Plus you could ask them for a loaner

Post back to let us know how you are doing.

Hint: Gumby would be looking for someone else to take his money.

Good Luck,
GumbyCT

ps. when traveling be certain to empty water from the humidifier. More damage is caused by being rushed than many other things in life.

[kennasgrammy]

I have the Remstar Auto M-Series which I see on an earlier post is data capable. Excuse my ignorance, but I've only been on cpap 4 days. My DME set mine up with ramping, summary data, therapy usage, compliance check, sessions and system leak. She explained what the C-Flex was and I made the decision that I didn't need that enabled. Can you tell me what I'm missing in data that might be useful for me to know?

[DoriC]

The DME brought my husband the famous Plus machine and the famous ComfortGelFF on 8/21, RX faxed to them by sleep doc who we never even met. I found this forum on 8/22 and was quickly educated, and on 9/1 we went to our Primary Dr who faxed the RX exactly as I dictated it, and on 9/2 the DME was back with an APAP,HH and UltraMirageFF. So keep up the good fight.

[OldLincoln]

Might be fun to learn all kinds of xPAP stuff and question your DME. The few I've known are good at puffery but I've found them lacking in substance.

[Slinky]

... good at puffery but I've found them lacking in substance.

Good 'un, OldLincoln. I like that! "good at puffery, but lacking in substance"