Encore Viewer Help (correction)

[Crest]

Hello,

I've been using Encore Viewer for with no problems for 4 months now. The past 3 days I can no longer get the daily details but I can get the "sleep therapy and long term trend" portion as well as the "pattern of use" pages. I've tried downloading the software on another computer and got the same results.

Any ideas ?

Marty

[ozij]

Yep.
Every now and then, M-Series machines take a weekend off.... especially if their users have been napping. Wait for tomorrow.
I think the usual break is 2 nights - if you miss a fourth night that's probably a different problem.

O.

[carbonman]

I've been using Encore Viewer for with no problems for 4 months now. The past 3 days I can no longer get the daily details.Any ideas ?Marty

Someone here posted this site:

http://www.mycpap.org/

Down load the Smartcard Tool Kit.
With the tool you can download the card data,
and then format your card.
I have been formatting my card once every week
and have not missed a day.

Hope this helps.

[bap40]

Yep the software or whatever does take a day or in my case usually 2 days at a time. I have been re-formatting weekly as someone on the board suggested and so far have not had any missing Data.

[Guest]

It's been narrowed down to "too many sessions" in one day. Meaning more than 3 sessions.
What defines a session? Wulfman has some posts on here that tell what defines a session.

In summary they incl.-
Any time the card is removed from the machine.
Any power interruption, incl. turning power to machine OFF begins a new session when power is restored.
Any break (period of non-use) of 59 minutes or more. Meaning naps or power interruptions.

Yes, the machine has an internal clock.
btw- Encore defines a day from noon-to-noon unless you've changed it. So any naps after noon WILL be recorded BEFORE the evening sleep session just gets moved to compliance (w/o details).

ALL will end the current session and begin a new one when the machines starts again. For some reason the info is carried to compliance data - so you can tell the machine was used but you NOT will get any detailed data.

Did you do any of the above lately? Esp. more naps?

This problem is believed to be in the M series firmware not your software or the older 'classic tanks' firmware.
Some say formatting helps but if you avoid more than 3 sessions each day you can accomplish the same results.

If you search you can/will find many more discussions on missing data, with examples.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27310&p=243092&hilit=#p243092

Begin Detailed Discussion here -
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27310

HTH

[Nodzy]

It's been narrowed down to "too many sessions" in one day. Meaning more than 3 sessions.

I've had many missing data days where for a whole month or longer I had only one therapy session (nightly) during each 24-hour (noon to noon) period. And I've had missing data days during months wherein some naps (no more than one per day) were part of my therapy, in addition to the nightly therapy.

I can't see where the number of sessions per day has had any direct influence in my missing data experiences with M-series units. It seems to be similar in the BIPAP-Auto as with the Auto-M-Biflex.

The longevity of the unresolved (and flatly denied by Respironics) problem certainly causes me to wonder about the total of commitment to quality by Respironics.

Nodzy

[Guest]

If it is not how the firmware handles data storage on the card, perhaps you can explain why erasing the data from the card fixes the problem? Then perhaps you will share your theory!! So we'd all know.

[Nodzy]

If it is not how the firmware handles data storage on the card, perhaps you can explain why erasing the data from the card fixes the problem? Then perhaps you will share your theory!! So we'd all know.

I did not disclaim that firmware could be the culprit. Nor did I claim a definitive answer. Erasing the card isn't really a "fix," but is a "end-user workaround" for a problem that Respironics refuses to admit exists, and apparently isn't going to address in fielded units.

Last year I wrote and commented in multiple posts in this forum on the topic, called Respironics, emailed and sent them files visually demonstrating the intermittent problem... and then was given the silent treatment by their reps. Of course, their last words to me were, in effect, there is no bug or problem in the M-series units.

The problem could be machine firmware, card read-write firmware or a combination of the two -- or even another factor or two.

My point above was, and remains, that an increased number of sessions per day has not been a factor in a day or days of data missing from my therapy charts ported to Encore Pro or to Encore Viewer. And that this should not be a widespread, recurrent and OEM ignored problem in assisted-breathing medical devices.

Nodzy

[Guest]

Certainly we are on the same side of this issue. However, I am not able to find the posts you claim to have authored identifying this problem much less a solution. To avoid confusion could you kindly link to the posts you mention?

I can't see where the number of sessions per day has had any direct influence in my missing data experiences with M-series units.

If it is not how the firmware handles data storage on the card, perhaps you can explain why erasing the data from the card fixes the problem? Then perhaps you will share your theory!! So we'd all know.

I did not disclaim that firmware could be the culprit. Nor did I claim a definitive answer. Erasing the card isn't really a "fix," but is a "end-user workaround" for a problem that Respironics refuses to admit exists, and apparently isn't going to address in fielded units.

Last year I wrote and commented in multiple posts in this forum on the topic, called Respironics, emailed and sent them files visually demonstrating the intermittent problem... and then was given the silent treatment by their reps. Of course, their last words to me were, in effect, there is no bug or problem in the M-series units.

The problem could be machine firmware, card read-write firmware or a combination of the two -- or even another factor or two.

My point above was, and remains, that an increased number of sessions per day has not been a factor in a day or days of data missing from my therapy charts ported to Encore Pro or to Encore Viewer. And that this should not be a widespread, recurrent and OEM ignored problem in assisted-breathing medical devices.

Nodzy

[ozij]

Well, well, well, "Guest". Aren't you beginning to sound more and more like a Respironics rep. monitoring this board?

A company rep. who won't take the trouble to make the search he needs to.

Did you honestly even try to look for "Nodzy" as author and "Respironics" and "email" in the subject? I bet you didn't - because I just did, and the posts Nodzy shared with us last year are right there in the list, no. 4 from the top, dated September of last year.

Here's Respironics' first and only reply to Nodzy's detailed emails about the missing data:

]Hello [Nodzy],

I am not sure exactly what error you speak of regarding the Encore software. We have no known bugs of missing report data in the Encore Pro 1.8. The sleep therapy daily details will only give you the nine most recent therapy sessions, as the smartcards can only hold a certain amount of data. Any days of device usage before that period will give you only compliance information.

Encore Pro is also not intended for use by patients. The software allows you to change your pressures on a prescription device, which is against the law. However, we are currently in the final development stages of Encore Viewer, a patient version of Encore pro. We hope to have this released by late October 2007. You can check http://www.cpapman.com at that time to see its availability.

Thanks, Respironics Product Support.

My emphasis.

Do you know why Respironics have "no known bugs"? Because they don't want to know. Nobody but us patients runs into the bug, because nobody but us patients tracks their data night by night. However, data from mere patient is discarded by Respironics: "Encore Pro" says the company in response to report by a patient "is also not intended for use by patients". I'd call that a non-sequitur. Proof - if more were needed - of the company's intentional denial of a bug reported over and over by the software's users.


O.

[Nodzy]

O,
Thank you for that excellent post in response to Guest. Very good, it was. Guest could also be fielding for a Respironics competitor.

I might add, as I had mentioned above.... that the BUG presents in both Encore Viewer and Encore Pro... two totally different software packages. Which logically means, the BUG is in the firmware of the machine or card module, or could be a combination.

In reality an XPAP is nothing less than a second tier life-support machine -- a non-invasive, assisted-breathing device designed to prevent or lessen conditions resulting in known debilitating, life-shortening and deadly damages attributed to repeated hypoxias during sleep. It's not like we're dealing with pedometers or bathroom scales.

If a patient has to erase the SmartCard, on whatever schedule, in order to get complete therapy reports for every session then there is a major problem. Erasing the card periodically is not a fix -- it is a patient workaround for an obvious design flaw in the M-series Respironics units.

A bug or two in the reporting algorithms causes me to wonder if there is a bug or two in the therapy algorithms that intermittently yield less than perfect treatment, or potential detriment to patients during treatment.

Nodzy

[Guest]

We do agree there is a problem.

The sleep therapy daily details will only give you the nine most recent therapy sessions, as the smartcards can only hold a certain amount of data. Any days of device usage before that period will give you only compliance information.

This must have been for the tanks. Mine (ver.1.8.49) only has 7 daily detailed sessions. If you use your machine as a hose or mask dryer that would record as a session unless you removed the card. So its not only naps but anytime the machine is powered ON, for any reason, even setting the pressure. Try the things I mentioned to see if they record a session. Get to 3 then see what happens with the next session. Removing the card after 2 or 3 minutes of use is a sure way to terminate a session.

If it is not how the firmware handles data storage on the card, perhaps you can explain why erasing the data from the card fixes the problem? Then perhaps you will share your theory!! So we'd all know.

You are saying you don't know what it is but it's just NOT the sessions? But offer no theory, kinda like political speak? And haven't proven me wrong either.

I can't see where the number of sessions per day has had any direct influence in my missing data experiences with M-series units.

Then he starts to come around.

I might add, as I had mentioned above.... that the BUG presents in both Encore Viewer and Encore Pro... two totally different software packages. Which logically means, the BUG is in the firmware of the machine or card module, or could be a combination.

Not having seen your complete pdf's I have no idea what you have seen that causes you to believe what it NOT.

So in summary:
We agree there is a problem just not as to the cause.
So how we all conclude that I am from Respironics or a competitor is beyond my comprehension.

Sometimes I don't know why I bother?

[ozij]

Yep the software or whatever does take a day or in my case usually 2 days at a time. I have been re-formatting weekly as someone on the board suggested and so far have not had any missing Data.

Hello,

I've been using Encore Viewer for with no problems for 4 months now. The past 3 days I can no longer get the daily details but I can get the "sleep therapy and long term trend" portion as well as the "pattern of use" pages. I've tried downloading the software on another computer and got the same results.

Any ideas ?

Marty

Yep.
Every now and then, M-Series machines take a weekend off.... especially if their users have been napping. Wait for tomorrow.
I think the usual break is 2 nights - if you miss a fourth night that's probably a different problem.

O.

Yep the software or whatever does take a day or in my case usually 2 days at a time. I have been re-formatting weekly as someone on the board suggested and so far have not had any missing Data.

I might add, as I had mentioned above.... that the BUG presents in both Encore Viewer and Encore Pro... two totally different software packages. Which logically means, the BUG is in the firmware of the machine or card module, or could be a combination.

We do agree there is a problem.

What's with your machine today, Marty?

O.

[Guest]

Did you honestly even try to look for "Nodzy" as author and "Respironics" and "email" in the subject? I bet you didn't - O.

I searched for Nodzy + Missing Data, this is what came up -
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27310&p=262437&hili ... ta#p262437

I've written extensively about the data loss problem in the Respironics M-series units. I documented it thoroughly and presented it to Respironics by email after talking with their support folks several times. After I sent them my data output clearly showing the data gaps that appear in several ways, they suddenly stopped responding to my calls and emails. ..... By Respironics denying to complainers like me that the data problem exists, when it is obviously evident and widespread, causes me to seriously question the direction of the company.

Nodzy - Care to share your findings, conclusion, or anything else?

Would love to hear others thoughts or findings on the subject of Missing Data.

Nodzy never responded, I guess I'll never know. So I'll just document my findings.

Took a nap after the post this AM - page count went down to 10 total pages. hmmm there is something to that.

My DME is coming next Tue. maybe I should erase the card eh? Let me sleep on it, I'll give my answer in the morning.

Perhaps I should have searched for data loss.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27310&p=262437&hili ... ta#p262437
You can read the entire post here - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27310&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

+++++++++++++++++
Then I came across this
Yesterday I talked to a tech in the Encore Viewer section about blank pages in the Daily Details window. He said that in all cases the cause was in the machine itself and that the card reader and Encore Viewer had no part in causing blank pages. He said that the machine memory could handle 7 days (I think that was the number he gave me)--if more entries (sessions?) than that were made in one day data could be lost (data being written over?). He definitely said that too many entries made before the Smart Card is removed to be read could cause lost data.

Also found this - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27310&p=243092&hilit=#p243092


DreamDiver gives an excellant explanation of the Respironics M-Series Pro firmware and Encore Pro software:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27310&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=75

[Guest]

These 2 are related
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34946&p=299416