Anyone using Fisher and Paykel thermosmart hose?

[danmc]

Can anyone tell me what it looks like, where the heating wires are and how they connect to the machine?

[tuna]

The only one I know of from F&P will only work with the 600 series and no other CPAP.

[crossfit]

still trying to get around the cost of the Aussie heated hose Dan?

It really does work.

[Bookbear]

The F&P 600 series heated hose is a proprietary hose. The heating wire (low voltage) is embedded in the rigid coils that make up the body of the hose. The wire terminate at one end of the hose that has a special molded connector that fits over the machine's outlet and at the same time, plugs in to a socket next to the outlet. It cannot be used on any other cpap machine to provide heated air.

I suppose you could rig some sort of plug with pin connectors, but I wouldn't know what current to supply. Neither the manual nor their web site lists a spec for that.

[birdshell]

I suppose you could rig some sort of plug with pin connectors, but I wouldn't know what current to supply. Neither the manual nor their web site lists a spec for that.

NO, NO--PLEASE! ONLY APPROVED SPECS!!

[Snoredog]

They say you shouldn't change your pressure either, but I don't listen to them either,

Get the replacement F&P hose, cut the end off put on a regular silicone end bringing the wire element out to a plug, connect a 9-12VDC (500-750ma) power supply to it and you are good to go, can probably glue on one of the ends of your hose that went up in flames.

The F&P hose is half the price of the aussie heated hose.

I only use a 9VDC 500ma power supply on my aussie heated hose otherwise it gets too warm. I also have the power supply on a timer set for 12AM-6AM so it shuts off automatically.

[danmc]

still trying to get around the cost of the Aussie heated hose Dan?

It really does work.

_________________

Haha no, if you read my other posts you will realise its not the money at all. In fact I'll probably buy one of the Aussies ones just to investigate and compare and I have ordered some units used in more advanced respiratory fields to examine.

I just like to investigate all possibilities and solutions. So even though I make light of the melted coil and my little disaster, and highlight my own clumsiness in it for everyones amusement, the fact remains that using a plain old reptile coil is not perhaps ideal and in my opinion, could be a tad dangerous. Which is why I had it rigged up the way I did with a thermostat and was trying to figure out a calibration for its output temperature.

What I was doing effectively was build a similar Aussie coil prototype but with greater control - calibrated heat and a safety factor. Speed was a factor I admit and the reason I failed, I need some rain out relief now unfortunately.

Maybe the Aussie one is far superior, I do not know. If you search the web you will find people claiming that they have melted. Perhaps early prototypes or not even that brand. Perhaps the weak point is the tubes, which is why I am looking at tubes designed to be heated in this post.

I don't want to bag the Aussie ones, they serve a purpose. I wouldn't like to bag innovative people that have supplied a solution. But I do think we can improve the solutions and I do think we should keep our eyes open.

Sorry for the lecture I know you were joshing me I just didn't want my goofyness to cloud an issue that I think is important. I'm looking at the fisher and paykel tubes because I think they would be safer to use and less prone to melting, and I infer from what I have seen that I could use the tube without connecting it's internal heat coil, but use my coil or the Aussie heat wrap safely on it.

Possibly the internal coil could be used in a modified form, in which case it would still be probably safer than a reptile coil and a standard (not designed for heating) tube but not as safe as using it the way it was designed.

Adding a regulator, a fuse and other controls is my goal, even if I decide to use the Aussie heated coil.

[danmc]

The F&P 600 series heated hose is a proprietary hose. The heating wire (low voltage) is embedded in the rigid coils that make up the body of the hose. The wire terminate at one end of the hose that has a special molded connector that fits over the machine's outlet and at the same time, plugs in to a socket next to the outlet. It cannot be used on any other cpap machine to provide heated air.

I suppose you could rig some sort of plug with pin connectors, but I wouldn't know what current to supply. Neither the manual nor their web site lists a spec for that.

Thanks Bookbear. I got a look at the 600 series connector today but not the pipe. I was more interested in examining the coils in the pipe for comparison (how many, how they are are spaced etc), and using the tube with my coil as I assume it is more heat proof and safer. Exploring the possibility of modifying its wiring for use did occur to me but was last on the agenda.

[danmc]

I suppose you could rig some sort of plug with pin connectors, but I wouldn't know what current to supply. Neither the manual nor their web site lists a spec for that.

NO, NO--PLEASE! ONLY APPROVED SPECS!!

'
I agree with the sentiment (if you mean be dont take risks) but unfortunately, there is little suitable on the market if you want a heated hose unless you can get by with the limited specs of the paykel cpap machines as well. I don't see any specs, rating, safety or compliance data for the Aussie sleep coil (its not FDA approved according to some) nor the reptile coils people use.

My assumption is that the python coil is probably designed for static installations and I infer a risk from placing the coil in a situation that will cause it to continually flex, apart from the risk of overheating. I wonder if the Aussie sleep coil is similar in this respect, or in fact an off the shelf reptile coil. I could be wrong, they could have designed something far superior but I wont know until I explore the options.

As far as voltage goes I assume you could callibrate it to output as I hope to do with any other solution. You could measure the contacts on the 600 series to get some data also.

[sleepydoll]

Well, just keep up the good work, Dan!
Here are some famous inspirational quotes from Thomas A. Edison

- Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up. Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succeed is always to try just one more time.

- Results! Why, man, I have gotten a lot of results. I know several thousand things that won't work.

-The value of an idea lies in the using of it. - To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk !

- Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration!

( I guess you already got the 2 last ones! )
Take care !
D.

[danmc]

Thanks, Mr Edison had it right

[tuna]

Just don't melt your hose!

[Velbor]

The following is a slilghtly modified copy of a posting I made 13 Jan 2008:

Fisher & Paykel makes "high-end" stand-alone humidification units which thermostatically control air temperature. Most readily available are the HC500 or MR720 or MR730.

These are designed primarily for ventilator patients either at home (HC) or in intensive medical care (MR), but they are adaptable to CPAP use. These are similar to the F&P HC100 and HC150 units (and use the same reservoirs), but are much larger, much heavier, and much more complex. Unlike the HC100 and HC150, where the dial controls water temperature, these are servo-controlled, with the water temperature controlled by feedback from AIR temperature sensors at the two ends of the main hose.

The units are often available on eBay, for between $50 and $100. But you need to be careful: three attachments are required and the units are virtually useless without ALL THREE of them: (1) the temperature sensor wire - of the correct length, (2) a heater attachment wire for the machine, and often an adaptor for the hose heater wire and (3) an air hose with an integral heater wire. (Single-patient plastic hoses, an "Isothermal Breathing Circuit" or "Adult Inspiratory Line Heated", with Airlife / Allegiance the usual manufacturer, are available. F&P also makes more durable compatible hoses, but with different heater connectors.)

I use the MR730 with my CPAP. Because the commercial Airlife tubing has a "bumpy" interior, I remove the heating wire and connectors and install them in a standard smooth-bore CPAP tube. It enables me to set the desired temperature of air delivered to my mask; I am most comfortable with 35 degrees C. I set the temperature of the air immediately above the reservoir 3 degrees lower. That means that the heating wire in the tube warms up the air the final 3 degrees C. And that means that there is virtually never rainout: the tube air temperature is higher at the patient end than at the humidifier end. But the air is nearly fully saturated with water vapor, and I breathe comfortably warm air just a bit below body temperature (37 C). I love the system.

Retail costs for this stuff is thousands of dollars. With patience, you should be able to find all of the pieces inexpensively on eBay as I did (less than retail for a new HC150, but all of the pieces are rarely offered together in one package). I find this an ideal humidification system (though too heavy and bulky for travel). But you've got to be comfortable with the technology! I post this only for completeness, and because I don't recall seeing it mentioned by anyone else as a great alternative for the adventurous!"

[ozij]

Wow! Velbor.

Danmc: The aussie heated hose is not an outside heating wrap. It is a hose with a heating coil inside it, embedded in the plastic, and a simple outside cotton wrap to keep it from cooling down. Nothing electrical in the wrap.

In the winter I need the heat gengrated by the hose, and an additional fleece hose cover.

I have recently discvoered that at my low pressure, the "short tube" (Swift or Breeze) snuggle hose is wonderful - and I don't need the main hose snuggle hose, now that its summer.

For me, most of the condensation happens when the warmed humid air exits the main hose and comes into contact with the cool narrow tube, or the seal.

O.

[birdshell]

I suppose you could rig some sort of plug with pin connectors, but I wouldn't know what current to supply. Neither the manual nor their web site lists a spec for that.

NO, NO--PLEASE! ONLY APPROVED SPECS!!

I agree with the sentiment (if you mean be dont take risks) but unfortunately, there is little suitable on the market if you want a heated hose unless you can get by with the limited specs of the paykel cpap machines as well. I don't see any specs, rating, safety or compliance data for the Aussie sleep coil (its not FDA approved according to some) nor the reptile coils people use.

<snip>

Please, please know that I was not being critical. I had just read the latest postings on the thread about your melted hose. I probably should have reserved any *humorous* posts for that thread.

I heartily endorse your efforts to experiment. You are going to have to do such investigations in order to thoroughly understand the concepts, principles, and cost effectiveness of the options for a heated hose. Now, that is the spirit of good old cpaptalk.com ingenuity.

I hope that you will accept my sincere apology. I truly meant no harm.

Karen,
Who sometimes hits "Submit" too hastily