Taping and air?

bap40 · Post by **bap40** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:14 am

Okay gals and guys, I have been taping my mouth with paper tape for awhile. Recently I have also noticed that at times during sort of awake periods that I am puffing little amounts of air thru the tape. It is not like a giant breath or anything but it is like these little puffs. Right now I have been using an Activa shallow mask that is too big on my face, but will hold a seal, until I make a move to either side. That is waking me enough to correct the seal and go back to sleep. I have also been experiencing that dreaded cpap bloat.

Any ideas for some help in solving this?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:25 pm

Brooke, So do I so I ordered a pap-cap chin strap from Bret/Sleepyguy in hopes of stopping the leaks/puffing of the cheek syndrome.

I have never been able to use a chinstrap as they are just usually way to big and hot on my face! I have major hot flashes
I can't get much sleep because of that alone, not counting the (loosing of the seal & re-adjusting the mask) all night long!

I hope someone can help you with this as it is so frustrating!

SleepyNoMore

bdp522 · Post by **bdp522** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:32 pm

Are you using Roosters method of taping? Are you turning your lips 'in' ? Are you leaving enough tape on each side of the mouth to make sure the seal holds?

Brenda

bap40 · Post by **bap40** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:22 pm

I just put the tape in a strip across my lips and beyond with tabs folded under to rip off. The paper tape sometimes does get wet on occasion from drool, I guess.

bdp522 · Post by **bdp522** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:48 am

Here are Rooster instructions for mouth taping, works great for me.;

viewtopic.php?t=9653

If you get your lips turned in enough...nothing gets past them.

Brenda

bap40 · Post by **bap40** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:27 am

Next question is... do some people have more problems with certain masks than others?

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:28 am

Brooke, if you're using only one strip of one-inch wide tape, that may not be making a big enough patch. I always had to use two slightly overlapping strips of one-inch wide tape in order to form a patch big enough to cover well "above and below" the mouth.

You've seen this link many times, I'm sure... I'm putting it here for new readers who may be wondering, "What??? Tape!!!???":

LINKS to: Mouth leaks - Air Leaks - Tape - DIY Guard
viewtopic.php?t=8011

bap40 · Post by **bap40** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:31 am

I turned my lips inward last night and that seemed to help, but... is it better to get rid of that extra air or just swallow it? Those seem to be the only options when left with a little bit of air in your mouth.

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:33 am

bap40 wrote:is it better to get rid of that extra air or just swallow it? Those seem to be the only options when left with a little bit of air in your mouth.

Don't swallow the air that fills your mouth. There is a way to work it back with your tongue to where it will get whisked down with the incoming cpap air the next time you inhale. Hard to describe, but can be done.

If you can fix a homemade strap to hold your cheeks flat, there will be less room inside the mouth for the cpap air that's detouring in. The less air filling your mouth, the less there is to deal with working it backwards. And the better the tape can hold against it.

Needsdecaf · Post by **Needsdecaf** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:27 am

I use 2" wide Blue painter's tape by 3M.

Sticks very well, does not irritate my mouth or cheeks like Nexcare did (painful on lips after 5 minutes WITH chapstick).

Will not bleed air through tape, stays on well (I am sweaty)

mindy · Post by **mindy** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:43 am

I used another idea from this forum - J&J Hurt-free 2" wide tape. Even though it's sticky, I cut a piece long enough to single-tie behind my head.

When I was doing just that, I would sometimes get an air bubble in my mouth. Then I put a pantyhose tights leg around my head over the tape and that seems to keep my cheeks in so I don't get the air bubbles anymore.

The combination (got that idea from Gerald) is perfect for me. If I need to take if off fast I just yank it down - doesn't hurt and is very fast and easy, yet it stays in place when asleep. No sticky stuff on my face.

Mindy

birdshell · Post by **birdshell** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:05 am

Good advice above, all of you, and I've learned a few more things.

I, too, have posted this numerous times after Laura's suggestions: I found that using a few (depending on the width of the tape) VERTICAL strips was more effective.

If you leave a small gap between the strips, you may also not wet the tape enough with saliva to take them ALL off! I think that if you have proper pressure on the lips from turning them inward, that NOTHING really should be getting through enough to remove the tape.

Turning the lips inward to JUST the RIGHT amount is a bit tricky. With some experience you will find the happy medium for you. I suspect that you need to pull a bit more lip inward to properly seal the mouth, but cannot be sure. Only YOU can determine that!

Another thought: smear milk of magnesia on the skin around the mouth and allow to dry. Then apply the tape; it somehow protects the skin while allowing the tape to do its intended job.

Best wishes!

Karen,
Who taped for a year

Gerald · Post by **Gerald** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:53 pm

Brooke....

I'm still using 3M Blue 2" Delicate Release Painter's Tape from Lowe's. After experimenting with medical tapes, I find that the Blue stuff from Lowe's does a better job for me.

I' still using Laura's (Rested Gal) panty hose tights over the tape...to prevent blow-outs. The extra pressure on top of the tape helps its mild adhesive do a better job.

Someone....I think Rested Gal...suggested using hot-glue on the panty-hose tights....because the tights-material is hard to sew.

I use about 10" of tape every night...folding down the ends to make "release tabs". The tape extends past the corners of my mouth about 2-1/2" on each side to help prevent blow-off at the corners.

Hope this helps......

Gerald

Dme Daddy · Post by **Dme Daddy** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:59 am

Get the guns ready. I understand that positive airway pressure mouth leak is a serious issue that can compromise the treatment. Mouth taping is an effective solution BUT it creates a very real and significant risk. IF someone breaths in materials (vomit) they are likely to develop aspiration pneumonia, a life threatening bacteria infection. This is why mouth taping is a no no in medical circles. BE AWARE!

From Wikipedia

Aspiration pneumonia is bronchopneumonia that develops due to the entrance of foreign materials that enter the bronchial tree, usually oral or gastric contents (including food, saliva, or nasal secretions). Depending on the acidity of the aspirate, a chemical pneumonitis can develop, and bacterial pathogens (particularly anaerobic bacteria) may add to the inflammation.

Aspiration pneumonia is often caused by an incompetent swallowing mechanism, such as occurs in some forms of neurological disease (a common cause being strokes) or while a person is intoxicated. An iatrogenic cause is during general anaesthesia for an operation and patients are therefore instructed to be nil per os (NPO) for at least four hours before surgery.

Whether aspiration pneumonia represents a true bacterial infection or a chemical inflammatory process remains the subject of significant controversy. Both causes may present with similar symptoms.

Infectious pneumonias

* Bacterial pneumonia
* Viral pneumonia
* Fungal pneumonia
* Parasitic pneumonia
* Atypical pneumonia
* Community-acquired pneumonia
* Healthcare-associated pneumonia
* Hospital-acquired pneumonia
* Ventilator-associated pneumonia
* Severe acute respiratory syndrome

Pneumonias caused by infectious or noninfectious agents

* Aspiration pneumonia
* Lipid pneumonia
* Eosinophilic pneumonia
* Bronchiolitis obliterans organizing pneumonia

Noninfectious pneumonia

* Chemical pneumonia

The location is often gravity dependent, and depends on the patient position. Generally the right middle and lower lung lobes are the most common sites of infiltrate formation due to the larger caliber and more vertical orientation of the right mainstem bronchus. Patients who aspirate while standing can have bilateral lower lung lobe infiltrates. The right upper lobe is a common area of consolidation in alcoholics who aspirate in the prone position.[1] Depending on the acidity of the aspirate, a chemical pneumonitis can develop, and bacterial pathogens (particularly anaerobic bacteria) may add to the inflammation.

bap40 · Post by **bap40** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:17 am

Most of us are aware of the dangers of taping BUT we are not ignorant of the fact that we need to be able to take the tape off as fast as possible in the event we are sick. Or to not use it at all if we have a stomach virus going on. That is why we strive to find the perfect tape for our particular needs.

We are also aware of the dangers of intoxication while using a CPAP.

I do thank you for posting that information though. It will no doubt give some new users a lot to think about before trying any sort of mouth closures.