Warning-Respironics HH leaks UNDER the unit

dllfo · Post by **dllfo** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:33 am

I have been on the Respironics BiPap Auto and BiPap Auto SV for around 2 years, but this is a first for me. My wife is still on the BiPap Auto.

Two nights ago I had a VERY unusual night. I hit 30cmH2o and that is not unusual for me. BUT this night I hit 30 and it stayed maxed out at 30 for a solid half hour. So the machine was working its rear end off. I also used an entire container of water. THAT was a shock. I always refill my water to the line on the HH each day/night.

My unit may have blown a gasket, I don't know. I blamed myself when I found water under it. I thought I had missed the hole when pouring the water in -- yet I knew that wasn't it because I use a 4 inch wide funnel. I was puzzled.

I found the water yesterday morning, but did not post here because I thought I had done something wrong. I checked it this morning and I had a puddle of water under the unit, the width and length of the HH. This is way too much water to wipe us with a handkerchief. I used a towel.

The repair for our headboard will be VERY expensive. It is Thomasville and the wood has curled up. I am not sure what the answer is. Do I put all my BiPap equipment in a Tupperware container? The water does NOT run out from under it.

I know they say to put the unit lower than our heads, but my 10 ft hose goes lower than my head, even the 6 ft hose dips down lower than my head.

Whether the pressure ruined it, or it just went bad I don't know. This is the NEW HH from Respironics.

Anyone else had theirs leak?????

Pineapple · Post by **Pineapple** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:37 am

See this thread

viewtopic.php?t=29393&highlight=water+leaks

Yes, some mornings I do have water under my machine - I still have not been able to figure out the cause. I talked to my DME yesterday and they are going to replace the water chamber to see if that helps.

Sorry about your headboard.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:45 am

dllfo,

I'm a little unclear what you are refering to when you say "this is the NEW HH from Respironics". If you are refering to the HH you have for the SV, these have been out for years, the only thing that has been somewhat redesigned on that HH is the chamber. The only thing that was changed on that was the connector to the blower unit itself.

Have you determined where the water tank is leaking from? I am assuming it's comming from around the seal on the bottom of the tank.

Panhandler · Post by **Panhandler** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:05 am

I had a leak from my first HH chamber on my "tank" auto after about 9 or 10 months use and relatively regular cleaning. One morning I woke up and looked over as the machine was running and watched a drop form at the front edge of the chamber. The underside of the HH was completely wet and the (cheap) cabinet it was sitting on was ruined. There was a tiny flaw in the gasket at the bottom of the chamber that only leaked when the machine was under pressure. It may very well have been getting wet every night for weeks and drying up during the day.

I'm still using the cheap, damaged cabinet with a new water chamber and wondering whether the HH could short out when wet!

I'm not as aggressive about cleaning any more, either.

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:24 am

> The repair for our headboard will be VERY expensive. It is Thomasville and the wood has curled up.

This would _appear_ to mean that you have your HH on your headboard. Please explain.

> I know they say to put the unit lower than our heads, but my 10 ft hose goes lower than my head, even the 6 ft hose dips down lower than my head.

Keep word is "dips". Does that mean the hose has a "U" shape between the HH and your mask? That will collect water from condensation.

Placing everything (machine and HH) on the floor next to the bed has some advantages. It reduces noise for you and your spouse and by being lower than the bed allows any condensation in the hose to drain back into the HH, reducing water in your mask.

> I hit 30 and it stayed maxed out at 30 for a solid half hour.

The user manual for my Auto M Bipap says the range is 4-25.

> I also used an entire container of water.

At a pressure of 25 (or 30) it's possible that it was blowing _water_ (not just humid air) out of the HH into the hose.

Here's a possibility. If you have a "dip" in your hose, water from condensation accumulated in the dip. When enough water accumulated, it began to block the air flow. When the air flow got blocked, the machine compensated by increasing the pressure.

You want your hose to be a straight line downwards -- more or less -- from your mask to the machine.

dllfo · Post by **dllfo** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:33 pm

Going for another medical test, can't talk long.

Respironics said, in an email to me, to replace the plastic "tank" asap if you have water under it. Water can get into the power supply and cause big problems. Apria is bringing me another plastic tank today, even though I filled my old tank and set it on a paper towel for hours. No leak. It takes pressure.

They said these tanks are tested to over 30 cmH2o and did not leak.

More in a couple of hours.

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:23 pm

you been living under a rock? There has been a recall on the tank humidifier and the M series has even more problems than the tank,

water runs down inside the humidifier chassis where the electrical is then runs out the air vent holes which is about in the center of where the machine sits.

I'd file a complaint with the Consumer Product Safety Commission and FDA and while you are at it the FTC, because the literature for the machine shows a "swivel elbow" coming with the machine, they removed that from the contents, it was their "thinking" that water from rainout was leaking from the swivel elbow and causing the water damage (WRONG), now with no elbow and the hose connecting to the back of the machine it doesn't even sit on your nightstand. Respironics had their head up their ass when they designed that thing. It is why most people here recommend the HC150 .

If you take your tank apart to clean it, it WILL leak, it only leaks under "pressure" like when the machine is On (doesn't leak any other time). The water runs out the clip on the tank, runs down inside the humidifier chassis, runs through the wire opening for the heating element where it sits under your machine growing mold and other things sitting water does.

If the FDA was doing their job they would force them to recall each and every one of them.

I put pictures up in another thread over a year ago showing exactly where it was leaking, Respironics tried to blow it off as a "injection mold" problem and failed ot admit it was a stupid design to begin with.

Best thing you can do is toss that humidifier and use a HC150, if you don't need the heat, just use the tank those are cheap.

Do you think Respironics disclosed this problem to Phillips?

6PtStar · Post by **6PtStar** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:41 pm

Every time I post this I get a bunch of folks that jump in and tell me theirs has never leaked. I say Yet. I worked with that "O" ring til I was blue in the face. Mine rurned the top of my chest of drawers and finally shorted out the heating element. Still heats a little but only one setting no mater what it is set on. It was under warrenty, wrote Respronics and they said it needed to be sent in but would not except it from me. I bought it from DME#1 that I fired for fragulent charges (they would not send it in for me). Took it to DME #2 and since they did not sell it they would not send it in. Some good the warrenty is! Bought a HC150 and gave up on Respronics. I guess if my cpap goes out I will be in the same boat. Yes it is a sore subject with me. Paid $220 for the POS and it lasted almost 9 months. Said mine was not one of those covered under the recall

Jerry

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:55 pm

Like Snoredog said, if you ever take a HH tank apart, there's a chance that it will leak.
My advice has always been to NEVER take any of them apart.

The older Legacy models had to have the top (plastic) part pushed down VERY firmly against the metal base. It needs to be inspected to make sure that it IS together.....no gaps......and tested full of water to make sure it doesn't leak......before putting it back in the machine.

On the newer M Series...... ......well, they were just poorly designed to begin with and should also never be taken apart.

Den

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:30 pm

xyz wrote: (quoting dllfo)> I hit 30 and it stayed maxed out at 30 for a solid half hour.

(xyz replied:) The user manual for my Auto M Bipap says the range is 4-25.

Mine, too. But we have BiPAP Autos, not the BiPAP Auto SV that dllfo uses.

From page 6-3 of the Provider manual for dllfo's machine -- the BiPAP Auto SV:

You can adjust the IPAP minimum setting from the EPAP setting to 30 cm H2O in 1 cm H2O increments.

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:23 pm

The "Classic" BiPAP's have a real motor in them and are rated for 30 CM, The "M"s BiPAP's, they had corners to cut, so the pressure was cut too. Less weight = Weaker motor, along with the other quality improvments of the "M". Jim

Kenv · Post by **Kenv** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:32 pm

Dump your Respironics humidifier and buy a F&P HC 150 then you won't have the problem.
Ken

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:49 pm

If they are leaking water the air leaks must be petty bad too.

dllfo · Post by **dllfo** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:29 pm

No major leaks. Per Encore Pro. The Swift II pamphlet only charts pressures up to 20. At 20, the leak rate would theoretically be 49. My Encore Pro says my pressures at 30cmH2o was approx 55-59. THAT was an increase from 25-33. Avg leak for the night was 30.5 Pretty consistent except for the period I was at 30cmH2o. So leaks aren't the problem.

Jim, what is a classic BiPap? Who made it? I wondered why this machine was set at 30. I also wondered how they knew to max it out around 30chH2o. Here is the website I read the article in:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articl ... rtid=28991

Animal experiments have established that even PIP at a level of 30–40 cmH2O results in lung overinflation and may cause pulmonary interstitial edema, inflammation and elevated vascular permeability, a picture that resembles acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) or acute lung injury (ALI) [2,3,4,5]. The pulmonary injury is often distributed quite heterogeneously. This means that normally functioning parts of the lung are scattered between parts that are diseased, either as totally consolidated lung or as collapsed potentially expandable lung [6].
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This quote is taken a little out of context and I haven't finished the article.

If 30-40 cmH2o screwed up animals, I wonder what it would do to us? Same thing?

6PtStar · Post by **6PtStar** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:32 pm

The classic is the Respronics Classic model also known as the "tank"

Jerry