My girlfriend caught me...

Flying_Norseman · Post by **Flying_Norseman** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:28 am

...leaking air from my mouth this morning. I have taken to sleeping on my back recently and we just got a memory foam mattress top that is incredibly comfortable. I never used to be able to sleep on my back before CPAP and now that I can I love it. However, I think gravity is taking its course and my mouth is coming open. My tongue isn't keeping its seal and I am leaking out my mouth.

Like many here I thought there was no way I would be able to leak from my mouth and not know about it. I thought for sure it would wake me up. It turns out that even a little bit is enough to let air out and effect my therapy. While 2.8 isn't bad for an AHI number .2 feels a whole lot better.

So now my options are: get a FF mask, tape my mouth or try a chin strap. Mindy pointed out a nice chin strap here: https://www.cpap.com/productpage/topaz- ... strap.html
It looks like people love it or hate it. Has anyone used a chinstrap to effectively stop mouth leakage or should I not bother?

TerryB · Post by **TerryB** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:45 am

My experience is that I had to combine the strap and denture adhesive stripe to keep my lips sealed to contain my treatment. I use a velcro adjustable elastic bandage found at Wal-Mart's athletic bandage shelf for knees and ankles.

Good Luck
TerryB

Lee Lee · Post by **Lee Lee** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:45 am

Didn't work at all for me. It just made my face hot.
I didn't get good numbers with the Full Face mask, either. I had to tape.
Taping works well for me. I think you'll find there aren't that many on this forum that have had much luck with the chipstrap, although I could be wrong.
Make sure you read everything on taping under the Yellow Lightbulb. Doing it right makes all the difference.
Interestingly, when I don't tape right, I get small leaks and feel awful the next day, even though my numbers still look good.
Weird.

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:04 am

You didn't need your girlfriend as witness ... your data was showing it was a little over what it should be.

viewtopic.php?p=220975&highlight=#220975

You could try training yourself not to leak in addition to the other methods.

ufo13 · Post by **ufo13** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:36 am

F-N:

Chin straps NEVER worked for me! Agree with some of the others-more trouble than its worth! I have given a try to at least 5 different brands, with No Success!

All the best,

Steve,
ufo13

Flying_Norseman · Post by **Flying_Norseman** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:20 pm

Dreamstalker,

You think that's bad, you should see last night's leak line. There were hardly any straight lines, mostly a jagged line all night long. I am gonna try taping tonight and see what the numbers show. If I simply can't stand taping then it is a FF mask for me.

I had good luck with the Liberty the first night I tried it, but it was a nightmare after that. I think I am coming close to the 30 day return on it and my DME already tried to lecture me about trading in masks too often (screw him). I think I will call today and set up a time to switch it out for a different one. That ought to piss him off. LOL. I really don't know why, I don't think it costs him anything.

Merica · Post by **Merica** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:36 pm

I just started using a new madk, that has a chin strap as part of the set up.
It is a new mask called Opti Life by Respironics.
You might want to check it out. I has a lot of leakage also from my previous mask. This one seems to be a good mask.
There is also another mask under nomask.com ck that out too.

Hurricane · Post by **Hurricane** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:53 pm

Just a vote for the chin strap, I don't believe you can train your mouth to keep closed, you can when your awake, but while asleep your control lapses, and you lose treatment, I thought I had my mouth breathing under control because I was able to have a conversation with my wife with the mask on, but once I fell asleep she said I was motorboating her description on the sound, some food for thought.And oh yes AHI down since using the strap.
Ed

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:10 pm

Hurricane wrote:Just a vote for the chin strap, I don't believe you can train your mouth to keep closed, you can when your awake, but while asleep your control lapses, and you lose treatment, I thought I had my mouth breathing under control because I was able to have a conversation with my wife with the mask on, but once I fell asleep she said I was motorboating her description on the sound, some food for thought.And oh yes AHI down since using the strap.
Ed

Believe what you want but I do it every night and I have the data to prove it. There are other forum members too with the ability to control mouth leaks by training.

Then there are those who try (like you?) and are unable. We are all different and I just happen to be a lucky one with the right anatomy or whatever ... but it doesn't hurt to try and see if you can (costs less than a chinstrap).

Oh yes, AHI average for past 10+ months is 0.4 with Breeze nasal pillow interface (10 to 13 cm auto) and no chinstraps, tape, glue, staples, bolts or whatever ... and zero AHI about 2 or 3 times a week

Flying_Norseman · Post by **Flying_Norseman** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:24 pm

How exactly do you train yourself to do something when you are sleeping?

I breathe from my nose 95% of the day or more.

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:11 pm

Flying_Norseman wrote:How exactly do you train yourself to do something when you are sleeping?

I breathe from my nose 95% of the day or more.

I quit mouthbreathing by holding my tongue forward to the roof of my mouth. When there, you can pull suction on it. By doing for that many hours, you can train the tongue to stay forward. It's not easy but it's painless. It take many hours, you have to make it second nature to do it.

Straps for the most part are a waste of money and time. Also sleeping on your back is a setup for failure. I'd use a FF Mask, and train for the day I could use the nasal without tape, but taping is the second choice. Jim

I still have some mouthleaking but it too little of a time to cause trouble mainly if I'm on my back, My AHI stays at a 0.7 avg for over a year, @ 12 to 15 CM, leak rate 34 LPM ComfortGel mask.

Hurricane · Post by **Hurricane** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:45 pm

[/quote]

Believe what you want but I do it every night and I have the data to prove it. There are other forum members too with the ability to control mouth leaks by training.

Then there are those who try (like you?) and are unable. We are all different and I just happen to be a lucky one with the right anatomy or whatever ... but it doesn't hurt to try and see if you can (costs less than a chinstrap).

Oh yes, AHI average for past 10+ months is 0.4 with Breeze nasal pillow interface (10 to 13 cm auto) and no chinstraps, tape, glue, staples, bolts or whatever ... and zero AHI about 2 or 3 times a week

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): breeze, nasal pillow, AHI, auto[/quote]

Should correct myself, and say there are a few very lucky people like your self who feel they do not mouth breathe during sleep with there training what ever, but in my case I had very low consistent ahi numbers, but my leakage graph had more spikes than I liked, that improved after using a chin strap.
I'm just giving my view, ignore it if you desire.
Ed

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:35 pm

Flying_Norseman wrote:How exactly do you train yourself to do something when you are sleeping?

I breathe from my nose 95% of the day or more.

When I first started my PAP treatment in August of 2006, I had read a few posts here on the forum about folks who had trained themselves not to mouth leak (I think Chuck – aka: GoofyUT was one). I too was being awakened by the lip flutter and hurricane winds whistling out of my mouth. Anyway, I did a little internet research and discovered that endurance athletes (like runners) trained themselves not to mouth breathe in order to mitigate premature dehydration by planting their tongue on the roof of their mouths (sort’a like when sucking on a hard mint candy). While awake I would practice and after awhile I noticed that I had my tongue planted up there even without thinking. I also began practicing using my nasal pillow mask (a Swift at the time) and breathing while holding my mouth open and not letting any air escape my mouth.

We have muscles in our soft palate and I think that is the key to training, well that and having the right anatomy to control the air through the nesolarynx and orolaranyx (ie. through the nose or mouth open). Once I had complete control of breathing through my nose under pressure or through my mouth without pressure I had my mouth leaks under control and my data showed that I did a pretty good job of it too. I later read about how singers also depend on a strong soft palate and may be the reason why some see improvement with playing a didgeridoo (never tried it myself). Now I really don’t think that a strong soft palate will cure one of OSA but it may help with certain aspects of PAP treatment.

Anyway, training involves strengthening the soft palate and with the help of planting the tongue up on the roof of your mouth and the positive pressure from the PAP machine and the right anatomy, it is possible for some to control mouth leaks … IMO.

Hurricane wrote: Should correct myself, and say there are a few very lucky people like your self who feel they do not mouth breathe during sleep with there training what ever, but in my case I had very low consistent ahi numbers, but my leakage graph had more spikes than I liked, that improved after using a chin strap.
I'm just giving my view, ignore it if you desire.
Ed

Well sorry you have to use a chinstrap Ed ... but I am glad that you are able to make it work and that option should not be ignored.

Perhaps it is I who should correct myself about the way I feel rather than what I know. You compelled me to download my data for the last 5 days and just so happens I had my typical 2 nights of zero AHI ... and looky there, I'm a big time leaker

Actually these are fairly typical nightly data except that I get a few days of 0.3 to 0.5 AHI but I can't tell the difference in the way I feel ... but what do I know?

goose · Post by **goose** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:30 pm

I trained myself to nose breathe in pretty much the same manner as Dreamstalker. Just takes time and practice.
( I also have a leakline that looks similar to DS as well..... )

Good luck!!!
cheers
goose

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:13 am

tape some air streamers to your chin, that way she'll get a visual when you mouth breathe

Machine	Mask	Humidifier

My girlfriend caught me...

My girlfriend caught me...

sleeping with mouth open