Vent Free to stop Mouth Leaks

socknitster · Post by **socknitster** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:41 am

Looking for TAP info to take with me to the Oral Surgeon today because I should be finally getting my TAP appliance today and I came across this thing called VENT FREE which is meant to stop mouth leaks associated with cpap. I have no idea what it costs, but it might be something to ask your dentist or oral surgeon about!

http://www.comfortacrylics.com/appliance/appliance.html

http://www.sleepmednet.com/sol02.html

I hope someone will get ahold of one and try it and report back! Anyone got one of these yet?

Jen

Flying_Norseman · Post by **Flying_Norseman** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:04 am

The The Sleep Apnea Airway Management System™ (SAAMS) looks interesting.

BadBreath · Post by **BadBreath** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:17 am

Flying_Norseman wrote:The The Sleep Apnea Airway Management System™ (SAAMS) looks interesting.

Or save some money and DIY.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:37 am

If you are BLOCKING the mouth, why would you need Mandibular Advancement?

Advancement is supposed to open the ORAL airway, right? Not the NASAL airway?

Or am I failing the Anatomy Lesson?

I didn't like the little bit of Mandibular Advancement my dentist tried on me. And I don't like the stupid acrylic bite guard he ended up giving me. And I don't like that there's a bill sitting there now to be paid...

Anyway, clue me in why I would want Mandibular Advancement if I'm blocking my mouth.

Cheers,
B.

Flying_Norseman · Post by **Flying_Norseman** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:32 pm

Wow, that is really cool. I might make that a project over this Winter.

BadBreath wrote:
Flying_Norseman wrote:The The Sleep Apnea Airway Management System™ (SAAMS) looks interesting.
Or save some money and DIY.

sharon1965 · Post by **sharon1965** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:48 pm

looks interesting, but those close-ups of buddy and his facial hair and his teeth were really grossing me out

socknitster · Post by **socknitster** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:53 pm

Sharon, I'm with you! A clean shave and tidy beard would have been more pleasant to look at!

Babette, the idea here is several fold:

If you have a really high pressure, like I used to, the TAP mandibular advancement device moves the lower jaw and hence the tongue forward, opening up your oral airway. It may not get you off cpap, but it could lower the pressure needed to keep the oral airway open. My nasal airway is quite clear. I will still be using my cpap for a while because you have to titrate out the lower jaw very slowly so the muscles don't freak out.

The SAAMS would help you to seal the mouth while still using cpap, because the TAP device keeps the mouth open ever so slightly. I think I will just use some tape myself and keep on using the stuff I have. I just bought a new mask that I like (comfortlite 2) and I want to stick with it for now.

So, for me, I would prefer it come down to TAP or CPAP. But I could see where a person whose pressure is, say, 20, would consider the combination, if it would make their treatment easier to bear. I'm thinking of aerophagia here--which is tormenting to many with higher pressures, myself included when I was in that group with the higher pressures. If I were facing a pressure of 15 or above and suffering from aerophagia and I could get my pressure down significantly by trying this combination and eliminate aerophagia I would do it. My thing is compliance at all costs. I'm willing to try anything reasonable to make my quality of life better. I firmly believe that with the right attitude you can get used to almost anything--I mean, heck, we all of us got used to being sleep-deprived zombies, didn't we?

The other device on that page, Vent Free, would be used in place of tape, to seal the mouth in conjunction with cpap. If TAP doesn't work for me I will look into it or the Nosebreath. I don't like taping, but don't have many other alternatives because of my receded jaw. I tried making the diy mouthguard and while it turned out very well, it didn't do the job for me. I need to update that thread.

Talked at length with my oral surgeon today about what I can do in the future. The problem really is a very small mouth and super big tongue. He said for some reason my lower jaw didn't develop properly. We talked about different techniques for decreasing my tongue size--surgery or radio frequency reduction.

He insists I am a very good candidate for the mma/ga surgery where they break the jaw and bring the whole thing forward. I would have to wear braces for a year before the surgery to get my teeth into a proper position (they are very neat and straight teeth but appartantly they are oddly angled) and then the surgery and then a year of braces to keep everything in place while it heals. The healing time for that surgery is far worse than the tonsilectomy I just endured. However, I'm 35 and it would likely be a cure.

It is going to take a lot of thinking to decide what to do. The TAP will help me make that decision. If it works for me, it is a good indicator of how successful mma/ga would be. I can't imagine myself voluteering for the surgery, but I also can't imagine doing cpap for another 50 years either. I might go to see a specialist in Chicago next year for a second opinion.

That said, cpap has been far easier to bear since my tonsilectomy as many of you know. My pressure is about half of my original titration and its only been two months since the surgery. There might be more improvement in the future.

That is my thoughts on the topic.

Jen

birdshell · Post by **birdshell** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:55 pm

Gee, that is oddly reminiscent of another device.

Please go to the "Search" button WAY up at the top of the page. (It is between "FAQ" and "Memberlist".) After clicking that button, a page will come up for one to input a search term. Enter "CPAPpro" and you should receive over 100 posts as a result.

Here is the web page for this device: CPAPpro Mask Site

One wonders who had the idea first?

socknitster · Post by **socknitster** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:22 pm

cpap pro was first, I am pretty sure. I would hope this device would be more well made as the primary complaint of cpap pro was the flimsy nature of the device. It also was never meant to advance the mandible, only seal the mouth and position the prongs.

jen

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:23 pm

Okay, I'm STILL not seeing why one would want to advance the mandible if the mouth is sealed shut? Did I miss something?

And I personally wouldn't do the break the jaw thing. That just sounds like way more trauma than it's worth. I'd rather sleep with a cpap machine.

LOL,
B.

Sleepdeprived · Post by **Sleepdeprived** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:31 pm

[quote="Anonymous"]Okay, I'm STILL not seeing why one would want to advance the mandible if the mouth is sealed shut? Did I miss something?

And I personally wouldn't do the break the jaw thing. That just sounds like way more trauma than it's worth. I'd rather sleep with a cpap machine.

LOL,
B.

smn joe · Post by **smn joe** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:45 am

I noticed some traffic to our site to look at the vent free mask.
This is essentially an intra oral chinstrap.

In Portland, we see patients that have given up on positive airway pressure for numerous issues: claustrophobia, strap pressure, oral air leak, dry mouth, pressure intolerance, uncouscious mask removal in sleep and persistent sleepiness despite consistent use.

We are really optimistic for the combination of mandibular advancement and positive airway pressure. We receive referrals from numerous sleep laboratories and DME providers of patients failing traditional strapped on masks. We have been monitoring just under 50 consecutive patients who now can wear their CPAP treatment because of the combination of oral appliances and CPAP vs CPAP alone or oral appliances alone.

We feel the effect is related to the advancement and stabilization of the mandible. This advancement results in a baseline support of the upper airways, this results a lower treatment pressure. This equates to lower pressure, less fragmented sleep from the pressure stimuli itself, less mask leak, less retrusion of the jaw by oro nasal masks and less REM-related airway collapse that occurs when the mandible is not stablized.
Unfortunately, I don't think in our clinical experience that a dentally-based cpap interface can provide an equivelant effect.

We are more excited about our experience with medical insurance covering the combination now in our region in the Pacific Northwest.

For what it is worth I forsee a lot more conversation about strapless cpap masks, we are securing the opus to our dental appliance, a great no leak interface. We are monitoring it and will likely publish a research article on the outcome this next year.

Joe Zelk
Sleep Specialist
Dental Sleep Medicine Consultant

Moby · Post by **Moby** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:11 am

Babette

Pushing the lower jaw forward opens the throat.

The throat has to be open to let the air into the lungs - even if you breathe through your mouth.

edited out garble

PS re edit...just woken up, can you tell?

Try again....The tubes from your nose and your mouth meet in an area called the pharynx which lies above the windpipe. There's be diagrammes somewhere on the web I'm sure.

It's the reason you can squirt cola out your nose. (when you have taken it through your mouth!)

Di

birdshell · Post by **birdshell** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:44 am

RE: Mandible advancement

This is a technique used in CPR to open the airway

Pop (or soda) through the NOSE?

Rough stuff--and I thought pool water was bad!

BadBreath · Post by **BadBreath** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:00 am

smn joe wrote:I noticed some traffic to our site to look at the vent free mask...

We are more excited about our experience with medical insurance covering the combination now in our region in the Pacific Northwest...

For what it is worth I forsee a lot more conversation about strapless cpap masks, we are securing the opus to our dental appliance, a great no leak interface. We are monitoring it and will likely publish a research article on the outcome this next year.

You have obviously spent some time here as well and seen the Opus Mouthguard Mod.

I am sure you are excited about insurance coverage, as anyone who is paying attention knows they could do it themselves for the cost of an Opus and under five dollars worth of modifications.

Actually, all power to you, as anything that helps hoseheads maintain compliance is a good thing. And not everyone can boil water or drill a 1/8" hole.

Sincerely, let us know how the tests go.

Vent Free to stop Mouth Leaks

Vent Free to stop Mouth Leaks

mouth leak management with oral devices

Re: mouth leak management with oral devices

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