Tank-BiPAP Auto & M Series-Auto Detailed & Visual

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blarg
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Tank-BiPAP Auto & M Series-Auto Detailed & Visual

Post by blarg » Sat May 05, 2007 11:38 pm

When I first started on XPAP, I knew enough to ask for an auto. I asked for a tank, but was given an M Series, which served me well and has ~1200 hours on it. A whole bunch of people keep posting asking the difference between the M Series and Tank models, and while all the info is scattered around the boards, I wanted to do a complete feature by feature comparison with pictures for the people that are visual like I am. Hopefully this will let you people that haven't seen either one in person get a "feel" for both of them.

I just received my used (1.7 hours, oh no) BiPAP Auto today, and the differences are more striking than I imagined. For each category, I'll cover the M Series first and then the Tank and then I'll crown one the winner of that category. I won't address algorithmic issues because obviously my BiPAP Auto is more comfortable than my APAP.

Size/Weight/Travel

This has been talked about ad nauseam on the forum, so yes, the M Series is smaller, but mainly it's the height factor that makes the tank seem so rawr to me.

Image Image

Image Image

Winner: M Series, especially if you don't need a humidifier. It's lighter too.

Humidifier Design

This may sound strange, but to me this is probably the single most important part of my CPAP experience. I use my humidifiers on max, so I nearly empty the tank (well, the M series one anyway) every single night, and filling the chamber is a very regular part of my life.

The M Series humidifier sits off to the left of the actual machine. You can separate the two pieces by grabbing under the front of the actual flow generator and pulling up gently. You'll feel a pop and it'll come loose. In order to use the machine without the humidifier, there's an included plastic piece.

Image Image

There's a large obvious dial on the top of it, and that's how you adjust the setting. This is a touted feature of the M Series, but I'm not that impressed. I don't exactly sit there and crank through the different humidifier settings each night. In fact it's become an annoyance. I sometimes go to bed, feel my throat incredibly dry after about 10 minutes, and then find the dial on 3 or 4 since I bumped it while I was grabbing my mask.

In order to fill the M Series humidifier, you open the door on the front and pull the tank out from the machine. You then fill the silly thing holding it sideways, and the fill line is just BARELY below the opening. You then tilt back flat and put it in. The humidifier turns on and off with the machine and there is no way to preheat before you turn on the flow generator. One night on the M Series I filled the tank only to hold it a bit wrong as I was tilting back down and dumped water all over the night stand.

Image

The easiest way I found to fill the sucker was to get one of those 2.5 gallon bottles of distilled water that are meant to go in the fridge with a spigot. Awkward to pour out of a gallon jug.

Another note here, the little window in the door on the M Series machine is there to supposedly let you see how much water is in the tank. In order to see this window at all, I have to bend over, and then once I do, there's not much to see anyway. The entire tank on the Tank (sorry for the pun) is transparent, which is more medical looking, but a much more practical design in my opinion.

The Tank's humidifier sits in front of the machine itself. It definitely has higher capacity than the M Series. In order to fill, you remove your hose from the tank and pop in a funnel. It's much easier to fill because there's not the other half of the tank preventing you from getting a good angle on the opening. I'd recommend getting ahold of an elbow so that you put less stress on the end of your tubing.

To turn it on, you press the heat button, and you can preheat before you actually start, which to me is VERY nice. I've generally ended up with a dry throat at the beginning of my nights which has kept me up until the water warms up properly on the M Series since you can't preheat.

To adjust, hold the heat button until the display changes, then choose a number. Harder than the M Series, but how often do you adjust humidifier settings anyway?

Winner: Tank. By a LOT.

Memory Card Slot

The M Series card slot is located vertically on the very back of the machine. Tank has it on the side and horizontally. It's a lot easier to get to on the tank. Granted, the typical user doesn't care, but we certainly do! Reaching behind the machine where the cords are every day or two is annoying.

Image Image

Winner: Tank.

Noise

This entire section needs to be prefaced with the fact that I'm comparing apples to oranges. The tank I have is a BiPAP Auto while the M Series is an APAP.

That being said, I was FLOORED by the difference in noise. Here are recordings of the APAP operating at 15cm h2o and the BiPAP running at 15/15cm h2o. C-Flex and Bi-Flex are turned off on both machines.

http://cpap.blargity.com/m_vs_tank/MSeries.wav
http://cpap.blargity.com/m_vs_tank/Tank.wav
(I'm leaving them in wav so you can real sound, not a compressed approximation.)

Yes, I'm breathing via the mask in BOTH samples.

Edit: Apparently the Tank APAP still has the varying pitch. Maybe someone will be kind enough to record from their Tank Auto so we can get a general idea. Of course the sound varies from machine to machine even when they're the same model, so yeah. Not scientific, but might help anyway.

For the newbies that have never heard a CPAP machine, I amplified both sounds using my computer so you could better hear the difference. I know they both sound like a vacuum cleaner, but in real life they're nowhere near this loud.

The M Series has this high pitched whine that I hate compared to the Tank. The sound also varies in pitch much more between inhale/exhale. Remember, this is with C-Flex off. It's even worse when C-Flex is on. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's louder, but it's definitely higher pitched, and to me, more piercing.

I used to set my ramp to my min pressure, and if the auto decided to go up to about 17 before I fell asleep, I'd hear a really REALLY annoying whine, so I'd hit the ramp button just to get it to hush.

Winner: Tank. By a lot. (Apples and oranges though. See above.)

Displays/Menus

To me this isn't a huge deal. You'll get a machine and you'll learn it one way or another. It doesn't much matter how intuitive the menus are as long as they work and you can decipher them initially. That's what this forum is for.

The M Series has redesigned menus. The Tank doesn't. Here's the same setting and what it looks like on both machines' screens.

Image Image

What the heck is start? What are the possible values? You get the idea. This is the single most confusing setting on the Tank though, so don't get too concerned.

The M Series also shows week average AHI and Leak data on the display without the need for any software. To me this is pretty pointless because that data isn't very helpful at ALL without the full detail report. You know your AHI is 12.4. Fantastic, how do you fix it? Do leaks look good? Yup, they do. Who knows what's going on unless you have the software? Any newbies reading this, don't be tempted to go, "Oh gee, I'll just get the M Series and then I won't need the software." Not true at all.

Winner: M Series.

Brightness

It deserves mention that the M Series has incredibly bright blue LEDs under the buttons that stay on while you sleep. They actually light up my ceiling. The Tank (this one anyway) has lights under the buttons but they aren't that bright, and you can actually turn them on or off to your liking.

Winner: Tank. Sure, blue is stylin' but I'm just trying to get some shuteye.

Summary

The M Series is a good machine, and has served me well. I find some issues with it annoying, particularly the humidifier situation and the high pitched noise. It also deserves mention that I'm on my second M Series humidifier due to an issue where they just flake out and stop heating the plate for no particular reason after a couple months.

I can't address reliability with the Tank, but many here can. See their posts.

Recommendation: If I had known the difference in humidifier designs would be this dramatic, I would have complained when I got an M Series. Get a Tank. You can get your travel machine later.

Last edited by blarg on Sun May 06, 2007 4:44 pm, edited 10 times in total.
I'm a programmer Jim, not a doctor!

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Janine
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Post by Janine » Sat May 05, 2007 11:45 pm

Wow! were you reading my mind??? I need to choose between the 2 in a couple of days, and I was wondering what the differences were. Having all this info/opinion in one post is great. I will be interested to see what others say.

Can this go into collective wisdom links?

Thank you, blarg!!!
And thanks for the visuals - they are a great help.

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CollegeGirl
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Post by CollegeGirl » Sat May 05, 2007 11:54 pm

Great post, blarg. My Tank Auto definitely sounds more like the MSeries sound you posted, BUT that's with Cflex on. I honestly don't remember what it sounds like with Cflex off. I'll try it for a minute or two and see. lol

Oh, by the way, the Tank Auto DOESN'T (at least mine doesn't) have the high-pitched whine, though. Just the same motor pitch-changing sounds.

Machine: M-Series Auto
Mask: Headrest
No humidifier
On the hose since 2005.

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rested gal
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Post by rested gal » Sun May 06, 2007 12:15 am

Thanks, blarg! Informative comparisons.

The sound files were interesting. I could have sworn I heard a bagpipe in the background with the M.
ResMed S9 VPAP Auto (ASV)
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blarg
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Post by blarg » Sun May 06, 2007 12:32 am

No, that would have blown your speakers.
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MartiniLover
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Post by MartiniLover » Sun May 06, 2007 6:29 am

After using the "Tank" Respironics Pro 2 Bipap for 2800 hours, and my new M series Bipap Auto for a couple of hundred, I have to agree with you on all counts.

You hit the nail on the head on the humidifier size issue.

I have been thinking of breaking out the old passover humidifer and hooking it up in line so as not to constantly be filling the M series. I might be able to get a way with twice a week.


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DreamStalker
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Post by DreamStalker » Sun May 06, 2007 7:54 am

Great post!

I was pretty convinced by the many posts I read here last fall that the Tank was the one for me to get .... however, I had to wade through nearly a hundred posts to come up with my decision ... your comparison summaraizes much of my reading with one short and concise post.

Only thing I would add is the flaky issues with loss of data on the M series and the need for a more current version of Encore Pro ... which is not a problem with the Tank model. In addition, at the time of my decision there was another issue regarding the M series HH reservoirs ... they were prone to leak. They have since fixed the production of the leaky reservoirs but these two issues pretty much nailed my decision at the time I purchased my Remstar Auto machine.

In the end, I got myself the F&P HC150 HH and opted not to get a respironics HH with my Remsatr Auto "tank" as I had concluded that although it was not the leaky version, there was limited control in temperature and also water capacity ... the HC150 has worked like a dream with my tank.

Thanks for the comparison.

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blarg
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Post by blarg » Sun May 06, 2007 2:32 pm

DreamStalker wrote:Only thing I would add is the flaky issues with loss of data on the M series and the need for a more current version of Encore Pro ...
Yes, definitely, especially since it's more difficult to get ahold of 1.8, which is the supposed fix for the data loss issue.

The tank humidifier seems to put out a lot more humidity and then still have water left 10 hours later. I like it SOOOO much better.

I'm a programmer Jim, not a doctor!

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Linda3032
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Post by Linda3032 » Sun May 06, 2007 2:54 pm

Blarg, it still irritates me that you can run your humidifier on 5 with no rainout while I get rainout on 1. Drat on you.

I must be the differences in pressure.

Like your new picture by the way. That's not a Portland bridge is it?


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blarg
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Post by blarg » Sun May 06, 2007 2:59 pm

Linda3032 wrote:Blarg, it still irritates me that you can run your humidifier on 5 with no rainout while I get rainout on 1. Drat on you.
Well, for the record, I only avoid rainout when I use my aussie hose (with custom fleece cover), the cover on my aura hose, AND the cover on my aura pillows.

You're all layered up with your 14 hose covers, I know, but yeah.

I usually end up spending about 9 hours or so on the hose each night and I was regularly waking up with burning dry throat on the M Series since it would run out of water. At least this last night the Tank didn't run out of water or come even close to it, while seeming to pump out more moisture.
Linda3032 wrote:Like your new picture by the way. That's not a Portland bridge is it?
Thanks! It's the Harbour Bridge in Sydney. The white thing on the left is the Opera House.

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WearyOne
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Post by WearyOne » Sun May 06, 2007 3:32 pm

Super post, blarg!

And so very accurate, as far as the M series anyway. It's the only machine I've ever had since starting (three months ago), so before now, I had nothing to really comare it to.

Oh, that M series humidifier setup is ridiciulous! Although filling it is awkward, I manage okay using a measuring cup (the little spout helps a lot), but if you fill it all the way up it can be a pain to get it back in the machine without spilling it. And since I have it at 4 or 5 a lot, I'm always afraid it will run dry (it's come close).

Will give the Tank a serious look when I get another machine, which may not be long because I really want a backup.

Pam


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blarg
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Post by blarg » Sun May 06, 2007 3:49 pm

WearyOne wrote:Oh, that M series humidifier setup is ridiciulous! ... since I have it at 4 or 5 a lot, I'm always afraid it will run dry (it's come close).
Yeah, whenever I slept 10 hours or so it would run completely dry on me. I slept 9 and a half last night and the tank's HH didn't even come close to dry.
WearyOne wrote:Will give the Tank a serious look when I get another machine, which may not be long because I really want a backup.
Well, my personal recommendation really would be to get an HC150. I don't have one, but people I trust a lot here love them, and they can be used with any machine. Then the only real issues you have to be concerned about involve the memory card, lights, etc. That's nothing compared to the silly M Series humidifier. This would be a good middle ground for not a lot of money.

If you want a whole backup machine then yes, the Tank is a good choice in my opinion. Personally I would love to have a 420E or something as a travel machine but given that on APAP my range is 15-20, I like my C-Flex too much. The M Series will do nicely as a travel machine.

The reason I got the integrated humidifier with my new machine is that it was on Yahoo Auctions at 650, but if you "buy it now" for 800 then you get the humidifier included. That's a normal price for the humidifier (150) but it comes with the extra bonus that you know the auction is locked in at that price and that you're getting it for sure. That was a good enough price on the BiPAP Auto that I just went for it.

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Post by dsm » Sun May 06, 2007 4:34 pm

[quote="WearyOne"]Super post, blarg!

And so very accurate, as far as the M series anyway. It's the only machine I've ever had since starting (three months ago), so before now, I had nothing to really comare it to.

Oh, that M series humidifier setup is ridiciulous! Although filling it is awkward, I manage okay using a measuring cup (the little spout helps a lot), but if you fill it all the way up it can be a pain to get it back in the machine without spilling it. And since I have it at 4 or 5 a lot, I'm always afraid it will run dry (it's come close).

Will give the Tank a serious look when I get another machine, which may not be long because I really want a backup.

Pam

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Post by Jaggles » Sun May 06, 2007 6:44 pm

Great stuff. When I got my tank a few weeks ago, I thought I wanted an M. Fortunately my DME was out but said I could trade when they got them in. I liked the tank and mine is very quiet, cpap not xpap, and wulfman spoke highly of it so I kept it.

Wish you had posted this a couple weeks ago. I thought I was using my humidifier and even changed the setting without much water loss. I just assumed mine did not use much for some reason. As I was changing settings last night, I accidently turned the humidifier heat on. my rt never told me about needing to do that and I foolishly assumed it was on since I had it set to be on. Oh well. Used more than half a tank on the 2 setting last night. It was more comfortable.

Again, my stupid smartcard shoulda told me that!


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Linda3032
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Post by Linda3032 » Sun May 06, 2007 9:44 pm

And Jaggles, if you take a mid-night bathroom break and turn the machine off, remember that turns the humidifier off too. The humidifier always has to be manually turned on on the Tank.


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