Loose Lips Sink Ships

sybert1ger · Post by **sybert1ger** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:29 pm

or possibly sink CPAP therapy.

I may or may not have a problem. I've been on CPAP for about 2 months now. My pressure is set for 9-12cm. My AHI is down to about 2.0. My leak rate averages at about 36.

For the first three weeks I felt like total crap on the machine but I'm now to the point where I at least feel about as good as before I started, whic is still pretty darn crappy. I have no problems sleeping with the machine on but I still wake up at least once a night for a few minutes to adjust things.

I'm very much a nose breather and use a Swift. Here's my question.

Maybe two weeks ago I found myself more dry mouthed when I woke up. The following nigth when I woke up I noticed something weird. My lips parted just enough to allow air to escape. It wasn't really constant and I wasn't inhaling thorugh my mouth. I've since noticed this several times as I drift off to sleep or wake up in the morning.

I've tried taping my mouth shut since then but the tape is breathable enough that it still seems to be leaking a bit.

Has anyone had a similar experience? Do you think it could be what's keeping me from feeling better?

My theory is that the apnea events are still being prevented but constant intermittant repressuring of my air way might be waking me up and that type pf event is recorded by my machine.

Thanks in advance.

Nitro Dan · Post by **Nitro Dan** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:15 pm

I know I don't feel very good when my mouth leaks. I use a cloth band that goes around my entire head, kind of like a sweat band. It works pretty well.

sybert1ger · Post by **sybert1ger** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:15 pm

Thanks. The problem is just with my lips though. My jam doesn't move at all.

oceanpearl · Post by **oceanpearl** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:22 pm

Try an Ace bandage.

Snoozin' Bluezzz · Post by **Snoozin' Bluezzz** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:37 pm

For your pressure the leak rate, using a Swift, appears acceptable. Based on that leak rate it does not appear like you are "gaping". I think you may be onto something - the problem may be arousals due to the air leaking rather than inadequate pressure due to mouth breathing. I had this problem with some intermittent "gaping" thrown in. Poli-grip strips have solved it for me.

David

bdp522 · Post by **bdp522** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:41 pm

I tape every night with no problems, The best way to do it is to follow these instructions;

viewtopic.php?t=9653&start=0

these instructions IMHO leave no room for error! Good luck.

Brenda

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:42 pm

Oh, yeah, I call it "lip flutter", others call it "chipmunk cheeks"; its a common problem many of us encounter. As mentioned, PoliGrip strips can work very well for that.

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:10 pm

last night while going to sleep I tried playing with mouth breathing, I found I couldn't!!

I would open my mouth wide enough to put a golf ball in it and cpap still wouldn't leak out the mouth. I was trying to figure out HOW that was, I normally keep my tongue planted in the hard palate, last night I didn't, I even stuck my tough out a bit and it still didn't leak out.

All I can figure is my soft palate seals against the base of the tongue once cpap pressure is applied via the nasal mask. So I wiggled my tongue and sure enough I was able to break the seal where cpap pressure escaped out the mouth. I really can't see myself reproducing this during sleep (to make it leak).

I know I woke up before with dry mouth and had high leak rates, but it seems that I can get by just fine with a nasal mask. It now makes sense since going on the Soyala my leak rates have dropped dramatically, before then I was using a UMFF and leaks seen there had to be from the mask.

This also makes sense after they say you have a UPPP where they remove a majority of your soft palate, you have difficulty stopping mouth breathing.

Hurricane · Post by **Hurricane** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:45 pm

Could be other issues causing you to feel not as good as you expected, I think a lot of us expected miricals going on cpap, if you watch the videos they all seem to awaken the following morning, full of new found energy, yea right. The one think its designed to do is prevent apneas, not being to cure overweight, lack of excercize,and lots of other ailments we have aquired along the way, but I do believe if we work on our other health problems, that with cpap should do wonders in reestablishing our energy, and mental outlook, Example of bad health care, I celebrated St Paddy's day 3 days in a row, Guiness, corned beef, cabbage, and soda bread, strange thing my numbers were good. Keep at it and stay well.
Ed

GeneS · Post by **GeneS** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:57 pm

You probably feel lousy because you are likely opening or breathing through your mouth when you sleep. If someone sleeps with you, ask them to check you out when you are sleeping. Cpap does not work when you breath in through your mouth. Air would not move from outside your mouth (atmosphere) to your lungs (inhale) unless your lungs and airway had negative pressure. (below atmospheric pressure). Cpap is continuous |||| positive ||||| airway pressure and will not work when your airway pressure is negative. I am assuming your apenea problem is from a collapsing airway?

I think that you may have and need to solve a mouth breathing problem and then things will probably be a lot better.

GeneS

cohodependent · Post by **cohodependent** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:55 am

I am a Sleep Tech and I see this lip thing a lot when patients are in REM. When you hit REM you loose all muscle tone in your skeletal muscles, and this includes your lips. If I see a patient how has a slight lip leak while in REM I tend to not worry about it, as it is a transient thing. If it is happening due to pressure then it gets a bit more complicated. I first will apply a chin band and if it get to a full blown oral leak, then I go to Full Face Mask.

You will always have an arrousal when you come out of REM. Most times it is transient, but if your lips and or your mouth is dry it may cause to wake up.

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:05 am

Thanks for the information on this "lipflutter", Coho. I've been a bit intrigued by REM sleep since my sleep problems began after a whiplash in 1994. All this talk about dreams and REM. I don't believe I've woken up and remembered 10 dreams in my entire life and I'm 65. But I have encountered this "lip flutter" on occasion since starting xPAP therapy so a relationship w/REM sleep caught my eye.