Tell me is this average...EncorePro Data

needingu · Post by **needingu** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:40 pm

I have this reading on my Encore data..Is there anything I have missed.
Pressure set at 11-15
OA 0.1 , H 0.8, VS 0.8 AHI 0.9, Large leak 0.0 min, 0.096 of night
Av. leak 30.82

MyEncore..
Apnea duration 5- 20 seconds
Sec. in apnea 137.0
Variable breathing 3.7%
Daily FI (flow linitations) 0.0 lim/hr
Daily Si( snoreindex) 0.9/hr

Compliance (hr. per night) 10.2 hr/da

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:46 pm

needingu wrote:Is there anything I have missed.

The only thing I can think of is to pat yourself on the back.....

Those are excellent numbers! Way to go!

Best wishes for continued success,

Den

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:12 pm

AHI of 0.9 and time spent in apnea of 137 sec., doesn't compute in my book. If my AHI is in that range my Sec in Apnea runs 0.00 to 12...

I don't see how those numbers can co-exist. Jim

Moogy · Post by **Moogy** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:58 pm

[quote="Goofproof"]AHI of 0.9 and time spent in apnea of 137 sec., doesn't compute in my book. If my AHI is in that range my Sec in Apnea runs 0.00 to 12...

I don't see how those numbers can co-exist. Jim

Stryker5777 · Post by **Stryker5777** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:07 pm

The only thing that jumps out at me is...

Your VB (variable breathing) is WAY too low... 3.7%

and your time sleeping is 10.2 hr/ per night. (which is good especially if you need it and you feel well rested once you wake up... but is kinda long if you aren't)

I seem to remember this typically varies from 20-30 % in most cases. This POSSIBILY indicates that your not getting alot REM sleep. There are other explainations as well for the low VB percentage.... and I know VB significance has been debated.

I'm not positive on the apnea length issue... It would be interesting to hear what other people's apnea lengths are typically.

Otherwise, your numbers look good....

The most important question is- How do you feel?

Stryker5777

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:09 pm

I think your numbers look great, needingu !

needingu · Post by **needingu** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:51 am

Thanks for the response..
.I feel great and am making an effort to do everything I can. Sleep, balanced meals, exercise 3xwk. reading, doing stained glass.. It isn't always easy. I am now sleeping the whole night without coming fully awake..Take a tylenol at night. Would taking a melatonin increase the REM.. I do dream. Thanks

krousseau · Post by **krousseau** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:09 am

The numbers look great-and I still have some questions for my learning:
AI 0.1
HI 0.8
AHI 0.9
Apnea duration 5- 20 seconds
Sec. in apnea 137.0
Hours of sleep 10.2

First question is am I doing this calculation right. Like Goofproof the numbers for AI, Apnea duration, and length of time in apnea don't compute for me. It doesn't change the fact that the numbers are good and it might be within the margin of error. With apneas lasting 5-20 seconds the minimum number of apneas would be 6.85 to have a total time in apnea of 137 seconds-wouldn't that be an AI of .672 for 10.2 hours. That calculation is with all apneas lasting the full 20 seconds. It would actually be higher if we knew how many seconds each apnea lasted.
My next question is how does the machine recognize apneas because I thought the time factor was longer than 5 seconds.

needingu · Post by **needingu** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:01 am

I checked the months from July toOctober and this is the comparative data.Interesting that on the 18th of October my apnea went up to the 600 mark and all the other days it was very, very low. Wondered what was happening.
July--AHI 0.9, Aug. AHI 3.6, Sept 0.7, Oct 0.9

Is there a list somewhere which tell what all the Initials mean and what they are. I wish I could calculate the number like krousseau .Whats your formula-maybe I can
Thanks

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): AHI

krousseau · Post by **krousseau** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:57 am

Be careful what you wish for -no one has ever wished for my math ability-Wait for a more informed interpretation than mine.
Here is waht I did using the explanations of AI found here. Apnea index is the total number of events during the sleep period divided by number of hours. (If the sleep is reported in minutes you multiply by the number of minutes then divide by 60). To get the number of apnea episodes I calculated I took the total number of seconds spent in apnea and divided by the longest duration of the individual apneas which was 20 seconds. Since the duration ranged from 5-20 you could have had one 20 second event, one 7 second apnea, and TWENTY TWO 5 second apneas,-with a very different AHI. I don't think that is too likely-I preferred to stay within a more reasonable margin of error.

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:38 am

Quetstion no. 1:
When Encore reports time spent in apnea, does it mean only full apnea, or also partial - that is hypopnea. I don't have a manual to check by.

Assumption:
Lets assume it mean both, since the total time is relevant for people with hypopneas as well as apneas - we are talking about the total time spent in apneic events..

Calculating the total number of apneic events (apneas and hypopneas)

AHI * total time sleeping = total number of apneic events per night
0.9 * 10.2. hours = 9 events (can't have a 9.18 total...)

Calculating averange length of event:

"Total time" / "Total number"
137.0 / 9 = 15.5 mins on the average for each apneic event.

Some are longer, some are shorter, but that is the average - I don't see any problem here.

O.

krousseau · Post by **krousseau** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:58 am

But don't the AI, the duration, and the total time in apnea only refer to apnea and do not include hypopneas. You're gunna make me look it up aren't you

"Stepped out" for a minute to look that up in the explanation Derek only includes apnea.

http://cpaptalk.com/myencore.php#SecsInApnea

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:12 am

The info should be checked in the Encore Pro clinician's manual, or even patent.

Derek was creating software to show cleary what Encore Pro logs. If Encore Pro doesn't log them separately, they won't be separated in My Encore either. .

I could be wrong, however, to my way of thinking, it makes more sense for Encore Pro software to count time spent in either apnea or hypopneas together. Certainly more sense than not to count time spent in hypopneas at all. Software and firmware doesn't always make sense, and does have bugs, but, I wouldn't think so a-priori. Firmware bugs and nonsense have to be proved (I should know - I showed the bug in PB's Sl3 treatment of mixed apneas). The Respironics programmer could have been stupid. But he or she could simply have been instructed to save space, and record time spent in apnea or hypopnea as combined.

Derek himselsf suffers more from hypopneas than apneas, which is why I am convinced that - had there been separate data - there would have been separate tables in My Encore.

Can someone please check their data in Encore Pro, and see how Encore Pro itself reports is? I never had the software, and can't find the paper reports from my trial period of a Remstar... I'll try to see if find it on someone's posted charts.

O.

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:14 am

The above was me - bumped out for some reason.

Edit:
Have taken a look at jskinners Encore Pro chart.

http://james.istop.com/apnea/Oct10.pdf

When Encore Pro reports the events separately, it calls them:
OA - obstructive apea
H - hypopnea

And I remember it also has an NR for non-responsive.

I think a generic "apnea" is all of them.
O.

krousseau · Post by **krousseau** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:24 am

I am looking at printouts of my own reports from Encore Pro 1.6.22 and My Encore 1.5.B7 for the same time period. That way I know I'm looking at the entire report. Also looking at the Help pages for Encore Pro on my other computer and a printout of Derek's intro pages for My Encore found on cpaptalk.com. Alas, there is no clinicians manual available to me a a layperson-considering asking my last employer if I can claim to still be their employee to request one and have it sent to the home care agency.

Encore Pro Report
Both in "Daily Events Per Hour" (for one night) and in the "Summary for Daily Events" (for the date range)---NR's (Non-Responsive Apnea/Hypopnea), OA's (Obstructive Apnea), and H's (Hypopnea), are reported separately. The AHI is a calculation based on all three. NOTE that in reporting non-responsive events they do group non-responsive apneas and non-responsive hypopneas-it would follow that the AHI would then include non-responsive apnea and non-responsive hypopneas, as well as hypopneas and apneas that respond to pressure. In other reporting apneas and hypopneas are listed separately and as a simple tally of those events without times given. I cannot find other reference to time in hypopnea except in calculating the NR-AHI and it is clearly defined in the report.
On the last page in Remstar Auto Statistics only "Average Time in Apnea Per Day" is given-not a range of time for apneas or a total time spent in apnea-those come from My Encore. Ah Ha may the source of the problem-see PS below.

My Encore Report
There are bar graphs for; average duration of apneas, time spent in apneas,
There is a stacked bar graph for the AHI which includes the NR-AHI, HI, and OAI.
Other graphs for compliance, pressure, snore, flow limitation.

Derek was creating software to show cleary what Encore Pro logs. If Encore Pro doesn't log them separately, they won't be separated in My Encore either.

They are listed separately in both programs. Only the NR-AHI groups them (in both programs). The NR-AHI was not used in making my calculations. I used only the AI-apnea index and the info from My Encore re: time.

I think a generic "apnea" is all of them.

They are listed separately-for myself I wouldn't lump them together

I made the calculations based on the information as given. To use different numbers would require assumptions about what the programmers did and why they did it-which are beyond the realm of even simple arithmetic or advanced mathematics. In all my calculations I still come up with an AHI of under 5-which is frequently used as a treatment goal. My question actually has less to do with what is included in the reporting than it does with the question I asked-did I do the calculation right based on the numbers given-using AI as only apnea, time in apnea only as time in apnea, and duration of apnea as duration of only apnea.

PS; The source of the discrepancy I perceive is likely due to the fact that the AI is reported from Encore Pro and the duration of apneas and total time spent in apnea is reported from My Encore-something I had not thought about on the first and second passes at this. I wouldn't be surprised if the My Encore program doesn't derive its numbers exactly the way Encore does. Thanks for bouncing this around with me.