My dad's sleep apnea

[Daughter]

My dad is 58 years old and he has been snoring for his entire life. He doesn't sleep in the same bed as my mom, he has to sleep on the old twin mattress in the basement, he takes naps every afternoon, and he still always seems tired. I can hear him snore all through the house and I am sure that he has sleep apnea. My mom has been trying to get him to go to the doctor or to a sleep clinic and get treatment for twenty years but he absolutely refuses. It is difficult to explain but he has a lot of anxiety about doctors, almost phobic of any kind of medical treatment or even doctors visits. He definatley would never even consider going to an overnight sleep clinic at this point in his life.
Anyways, my question is what are the options besides spending a night in a sleep clinic. The issue isn't so much money or insurance as is that he absolutely would never do it. Is it possible to video record his sleep and submit it or do some kind of home tests that the doctor will review? I have read some discussion about "self-medicating" and obtaining and managing the machine yourself. How dangerous is that? Is it more dangerous than letting him continue to snore and suffer from sleep apnea? I am not trying to jeopordize his life or take shortcuts, but I know he would like to share a bed with my mom and have some treatment but not if he has to go to a sleep clinic. I am always worrying about his health and I would like to see him realize what life can be like when you aren't tired ALL the time. Thanks for your advice!

[SelfSeeker]

Hi Daughter,

At 58, your dad is still young and has a lot of good life ahead of him.

You can record him to show him what he does. You can use the video to show a dr why he needs a sleep study.

I do not know the name of the device, but there are devices that you can use at home. I do not mean the ones that go on your nose. Thes have wires but not as complete as the ones at a sleep lab. I know some hospitals use them as an initial screening.

If you watched the View, when Rosie O'Donald said she had sleep apnea. This divice or one similar was shown. She also did not go to a sleep lab. Find out if you can get a transcript and shwo your dad. She even put on a swift (if I remember).

If it was me, I would contact your Dr. Ask to see a phnomologist, and see who would have this device.

Will your dad where a CPAP?

I wish you all the best. Do not give up, but like any other condition, it really is up to the patient to make it work.

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[Wulfman]

I can relate to his age.....I'm 58......and I can relate to his resistance to see doctors.
BUT......I wanted my "life" back!!! (and to be around for my children and grandchildren)

There are many, many articles, sites and information available on the Internet describing the health problems that sleep apnea can contribute to.
If you can have him read some of that information, that might be helpful.
Also, one night in a sleep lab (if they do a split-night) is a pretty small price to pay to get back on the road to good health (and good sleep in the process).

In many ways, the price of stubbornness can be an early death.

Is he "computer literate"? Could you get him to visit this forum? We'd be glad to talk to him.

Best wishes,

Den

[rested gal]

He definatley would never even consider going to an overnight sleep clinic at this point in his life.
Anyways, my question is what are the options besides spending a night in a sleep clinic. The issue isn't so much money or insurance as is that he absolutely would never do it. Is it possible to video record his sleep and submit it or do some kind of home tests that the doctor will review? I have read some discussion about "self-medicating" and obtaining and managing the machine yourself. How dangerous is that? Is it more dangerous than letting him continue to snore and suffer from sleep apnea?

D, you know your father better than any of us do. If video (or even just audio) recording his sleep would help him understand the seriousness of sleep apnea, yeah, you could do that. Maybe, just maybe, if he actually saw/heard himself struggling for air all night, he just might be open to at least considering a real sleep study.

But, if you're absolutely certain there's gonna be no way to convince him to go in for a sleep study.... any doctor can write an Rx for "cpap" (or "autopap" or "bipap", for that matter) without any kind of sleep study or screening at all. Perhaps your mom's doctor, or your own doctor, would be willing to write the Rx if you explain the situation and the symptoms....and that going to a sleep lab for an overnight study is totally out of the question for your dad.

Below are two links that might be of interest. Especially the first one, as it touches on the kind of thing you are facing with trying to help your father in light of what you know about how he would absolutely refuse an overnight study in a sleep lab:
Powerpoint presentation at a meeting of the American Lung Association of the Central Coast - November 2004 - by Dr. Barbara Phillips (board certified pulmonologist and board certified sleep doctor) -- "Not Every Patient Needs to Go to the Sleep Lab."

Can Patients with Obstructive Sleep Apnea Titrate Their Own Continuous Positive Airway Pressure?
The answer was "Yes."

Of course it would be better for him to have a full, attended PSG sleep study at a sleep lab. But if that just won't happen, then I do believe going ahead and getting on cpap treatment (preferably with an autopap, imho) is a smart thing to do.

You asked:
Is it more dangerous than letting him continue to snore and suffer from sleep apnea? I think letting him continue as he is now is far more dangerous than self-treating. But I don't know anything about all his health issues, and I'm not a doctor. Just my opinion.

Seeker had a good point -- do you think he'd even accept wearing a cpap mask and using a machine? If you think his accepting THAT would be an uphill battle, then there's all the more reason to keep trying to bring him around to the idea of having a "real" sleep study. Seeing a report of the results in black and white of how many times he stopped breathing, for how long, how much his O2 dropped, how many times his sleep was fragmented, etc., can make a difference in how seriously he might try to use a "machine and mask."

If all he thinks the machine is about is to stop annoying snoring, and he doesn't really want to keep trying to use it, he might shove it in a closet right away.

That's the biggest danger, imho, in trying to get someone else to go the self-treatment route if that person himself/herself is not already fully convinced of the seriousness of sleep apnea and already begging for a cpap machine. If he ever tries it and doesn't like it, it would be even more impossible (if "more impossible" is possible...lol ) to get him to ever seek help.

You might contact sleep labs in your area (I'd stick with contacting ONLY fully accredited labs) to see if any of them do portable at-home studies.

Good luck. You're sure trying to do something important for your father. I hope he'll let you.

[muld00n]

Rested Gal, you sure you're not some kinda angel ? Great advice !

Daughter, tell your dad that I was 54 years old when I finally gave in and went to a sleep clinic, and believe me, NO ONE was more stubborn that me. I used to wake myself up every night gasping for air. The sleep study was not a particularly enjoyable experience, but it was definately worth it. My reaction to the mask and CPAP machine was " I've got to get me one of those". It is really great to be able to breath again while trying to sleep. Been on it 2 years now and I dont want to be without it ever again.

Good luck with getting him to go. But I got an idea that he will give in if his loving Daughter keeps after him.

Steve

[Guest]

D, this is all great advice from everyone here. I would strongly urge your Dad to at least have a doctor write a prescription for an Auto Cpap, with the software and card reader, that way, your or they can see the data, not quite as good as a normal sleep study, but far better than doing nothing at all! He can sleep at home with this!

I am 55, a dad as well, one beautiful daughter, and a Cpap patient since I was about 42! If it were not for my wife, now deceased, it would have taken longer for me to get to that original sleep study. I WANT to be around for my daughter and my eventual grandchildren...I hope .

Your dad is playing russian roulette. He needs to have at least an auto Cpap. Another possibility is to just rent one with the prescription, and/or get the doctor to give him an oxygen sensor for his finger to take home for a night.

I hope you can persuade him. Let me relay a true story that might make a difference. About 12 years ago, I was working at a company. In my line of work, I work for different companies and travel a lot. This particular time, I was talking with some of the employees about sleep apnea, since I had just been diagnosed a few years prior. One fellow overheard me talking and started asking many questions..he had all the classic signs of sleep apnea, loud snoring, feeling tired during the afternoon, taking naps, falling asleep driving, etc. I told him he must go get a sleep study asap. At that time, they did not have Auto Cpaps. I came back to that company some 3-4 years later. That same guy came up to me...btw, he was about 56 yrs old....he came up to me and was very happy, as he had JUST had that sleep study done a few weeks prior and was finally getting the sleep machine next week! Of course I was very happy that he had done that, but was disappointed that it took 4 years to do it!

In any case, a few days later, when I came to work, everyone had a sad face, and I of course asked what was the matter. It turns out, that the same fellow who was getting his sleep machine next week, died of a heart attack after dinner in his favorite lounge chair. His wife was right there, but the paramedics could not save him. It was so sad, his wife, 3 children, and grandkids now alone. My point is, this could have been prevented I am sure, if he had been diagnosed years before!!! Please have your dad at least get an oxygen monitor for his finger, so they can see how his oxygen drops durning the apnea....better yet, get an Auto CPAP, with software and data to record what is obviously sleep apnea. Both of those devices can be used at home, in his own bed!

[JohnD]

SORRY, somehow this got posted twice!!

D, this is all great advice from everyone here. I would strongly urge your Dad to at least have a doctor write a prescription for an Auto Cpap, with the software and card reader, that way, your or they can see the data, not quite as good as a normal sleep study, but far better than doing nothing at all! He can sleep at home with this!

I am 55, a dad as well, one beautiful daughter, and a Cpap patient since I was about 42! If it were not for my wife, now deceased, it would have taken longer for me to get to that original sleep study. I WANT to be around for my daughter and my eventual grandchildren...I hope .

Your dad is playing russian roulette. He needs to have at least an auto Cpap. Another possibility is to just rent one with the prescription, and/or get the doctor to give him an oxygen sensor for his finger to take home for a night.

I hope you can persuade him. Let me relay a true story that might make a difference. About 12 years ago, I was working at a company. In my line of work, I work for different companies and travel a lot. This particular time, I was talking with some of the employees about sleep apnea, since I had just been diagnosed a few years prior. One fellow overheard me talking and started asking many questions..he had all the classic signs of sleep apnea, loud snoring, feeling tired during the afternoon, taking naps, falling asleep driving, etc. I told him he must go get a sleep study asap. At that time, they did not have Auto Cpaps. I came back to that company some 3-4 years later. That same guy came up to me...btw, he was about 56 yrs old....he came up to me and was very happy, as he had JUST had that sleep study done a few weeks prior and was finally getting the sleep machine next week! Of course I was very happy that he had done that, but was disappointed that it took 4 years to do it!

In any case, a few days later, when I came to work, everyone had a sad face, and I of course asked what was the matter. It turns out, that the same fellow who was getting his sleep machine next week, died of a heart attack after dinner in his favorite lounge chair. His wife was right there, but the paramedics could not save him. It was so sad, his wife, 3 children, and grandkids now alone. My point is, this could have been prevented I am sure, if he had been diagnosed years before!!! Please have your dad at least get an oxygen monitor for his finger, so they can see how his oxygen drops durning the apnea....better yet, get an Auto CPAP, with software and data to record what is obviously sleep apnea. Both of those devices can be used at home, in his own bed!

One other thing, he is going to feel SO much better, having his sleep apnea treated with a cpap machine!
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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): auto cpap, CPAP, Prescription, auto, Travel

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): auto cpap, CPAP, Prescription, auto, Travel

[Guest]

Thanks for all the advice! It was really helpful, it is good to know that you can get a prescription from a doctor without spending the nights at the sleep clinic. I will look into that because it would be a little easier to get him to go to a doctor's office. I will also definately refer him to this forum if he gets treatment and needs some educational info. Happy Holidays!

[kteague]

When I had my first study in 1999 they offered me the option of them coming and setting it up in my own bedroom. Glad I didn't cause I had loose wires off and on during the nite, but it was an option. And there are the strips to screen at home which is better than nothing. If you wrote him a poem about it to the tune of "All I Want For Christmas" would it reach him? Otherwise I suggest photocopying some of the most persuasive articles on the dangers of untreated apnea, wrap them real pretty with a bow, and gift him with them privately, telling him the gift is for the man who has everything to live for. If Dad doesn't bend to your loving concern, use your judgement about how far to take it. In the end, if he's fully informed and chooses to stay in denial, I hope it helps you to know that you didn't just turn your head. But if he chooses to stay tired and old before his time, and maybe even worse, it's his choice. He's blessed to have a daughter who cares as you do. My guess is he will eventually melt.

[JohnD]

double post.....sorry.....

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): auto cpap, CPAP, Prescription, auto, Travel[/quote]

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[Sleepy-eyes]

Hey, you might even mention to him if he'd get a machine and stop snoring so loudly he might get to sleep in the same bed with his wife again. Heck, that'd make me want the machine!!!!!

[Mile High Sleeper]

Daughter, at home tests and sleep lab tests are described here, under the light bulb above, sleep tests:
cpaptalk-articles/sleep-study-tests.html

Some of the other signs of sleep apnea and denial are described in the article on evaluating your sleep, as well as online quizzes.

Does your dad realize that he has a choice of being fearful and stubborn about possible sleep apnea, or being brave enough to see a doctor to avoid something worse? A bad heart or stroke that could result from not treating sleep apnea would definitely involve a LOT of medical attention, lots more than sleep apnea does.

[blarg]

One thing you should know as well is that your situation is not uncommon at all. Usually it's those around the person with sleep apnea that notice it long before the sufferer does. It's tough too, because while you see that they're tired, they will deny it and plug along with what they're doing already. I mean who has trouble sleeping? Sleeping is one of those things you just do, right? Of course not. Now that I'm looking back with the knowledge that I have sleep apnea, I see the symptoms clear as day. Hopefully your dad will come to see the situation with time and the loving prodding you're already providing.

I wish you all the best in helping your dad live a better life and think he's very lucky to have a daughter that cares about him like you do.

[cflame1]

I have to add my two cents in here... definately get him to get some kind of treatment. See I spent years knowing that my dad has a problem sleeping. He's now dying of a multitude of problems... heart included which probably could have been corrected if he hadn't been stubborn and had dealt with them. To this day they say that his heart won't be able to handle xpap treatment... he can't sleep in an easy chair at night (only place where he can breathe) because he needs to dialyze at night. If I'd known then what I know now I would have insisted... taken him there if I needed to.

[Gerald]

Daughter.....Your father has to WANT to use an APAP machine. I have my doubts that he would spend the approx $1000.00 necessary for good equipment.....much less make the effort to tweak everything so that it works for him......unless he is absolutely convinced that he's going to die early if he doesn't "look the dragon in the eye" and decide to do something about it.

If he makes the mistake of trying to go "too cheap" on his equipment, there's a good chance he'll become discouraged....and quit.

He has to want to do this on his own......or his sub-conscious will find a thousand ways to talk his conscious mind out of it.

When I realized that I was in trouble, I got to my doctor as fas as I could go......scheduled a sleep test as quickly as I could get it done......did the follow-up titration on an emergency basis......bought my equipment (from cpap.com) on the day I got my script from the doctor......and was making it work the same day I received it.

It's made a huge difference for me.......but my sub-conscious was convinced that I was going to die early if I didn't "get 'er done".

Finally, I suggest that you print out the following article and hand it to your father. The article describes exactly what was happening to me......and your father may be experiencing the same problem.

http://www.hhponline.com/Stevens/HHPPub ... endocument

I wish you the best of luck. Just don't feel guilty if your father refuses to listen....and dies early. You will have done your best to save him.