12VDC to 24VDC converter or a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter
12VDC to 24VDC converter or a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter
I would like to use my VPAP machine while camping and I have noticed there are at least two ways to run it from a standard 12V battery. While operating my ResMed S9 from a battery, which would use less current, a 12VDC to 24VDC converter or a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter? I would like to use as small and portable a battery as possible. Low cost is a consideration. I know I can buy a battery which will power my S9 directly but, it costs from $300.00 to $700.00. That's just too much for me to spend. I would like your opinion on what's best for operating away from AC power. Thank you, Leo
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Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control |
Additional Comments: I am using an S9 VPAP Adapt Machine. I have complex sleep apnea. |
Re: 12VDC to 24VDC converter or a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter
I use one of these along with my battery for my home backup power. https://www.cpap.com/productpage/DC-Con ... hines.html
_________________
Machine: ResMed AirCurve 10 ASV Machine with Heated Humidifier |
Mask: Evora Full Face Mask - Fitpack |
Additional Comments: AirCurve 10 ASV, Oscar V1.0.1-r-1 |
US Navy Retired 1973,AirCurve 10 ASV, Mode: ASV Auto, Min EPAP: 7.2, Max EPAP: 15.0, Min PS:4.0, Max PS: 15.0, Mask ResMed Airtouch F20, Backup: (2) AirCurve 10 ASV
Re: 12VDC to 24VDC converter or a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter
The traditional value of inverter efficiency is 50%, but most newer models will claim 90%. Unfortunately, that is usually near peak power and under more typical conditions the inverter plus the power brick together are at about 60% efficient.ProVega wrote:I would like to use my VPAP machine while camping and I have noticed there are at least two ways to run it from a standard 12V battery. While operating my ResMed S9 from a battery, which would use less current, a 12VDC to 24VDC converter or a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter? I would like to use as small and portable a battery as possible. Low cost is a consideration. I know I can buy a battery which will power my S9 directly but, it costs from $300.00 to $700.00. That's just too much for me to spend. I would like your opinion on what's best for operating away from AC power. Thank you, Leo
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=92230&st=0&sk=t&sd=a#p854963
For Respironics machines that can take 12V directly, its a no-brainer, but for ResMed you have to assume the converter is about 85-90% efficient, and since it costs $85, you have to do a cost/benefit analysis.
You don't mention what type of camping you're doing - if you're carrying in, obviously you can't take a large lead-acid battery, and you probably want a small lithium based battery. I'm guessing the 12-24DC converter will allow you to stretch the time of a small lithium battery and end up cheaper. On the other hand, if you're "car camping" a not very expensive deep cycle lead-acid battery can easily run a CPAP with humidifier for two nights, even on an inverter.
BTW, although you can get fairly cheap (under $50) inverters, they are cheaply made, have a less than stellar failure rate, and often have a noisy fan.
Some background:
http://www.resmed.com/assets/documents/ ... lo_eng.pdf
_________________
Machine: DreamStation Auto CPAP Machine |
Mask: Quattro™ Air Full Face Mask with Headgear |
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier |
Additional Comments: Pressure 9-20, average ~9.5; often use battery power while off-grid |
Hark, how hard he fetches breath . . . Act II, Scene IV, King Henry IV Part I, William Shakespeare
Choosing a Battery thread: http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1140 ... ttery.html
Choosing a Battery thread: http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1140 ... ttery.html
- Bama Rambler
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Re: 12VDC to 24VDC converter or a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter
Unless you're willing to get a TSW (True Sine Wave) inverter I'd go with the 12v to 24v converter.
Re: 12VDC to 24VDC converter or a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter
Why? There should be no problem using a Modified Sine Wave (MSW) inverter with the S9 power brick. I've use MSW inverters for years and have only had a few devices (usually power tools with motors) that have had an issue. There shouldn't be a problem if the AC power is then fed through a power brick. Admittedly you're more likely to get high quality in a TSW inverter, but there's nothing inherently wrong with MSW.Bama Rambler wrote:Unless you're willing to get a TSW (True Sine Wave) inverter I'd go with the 12v to 24v converter.
That said, I'd still lean towards the 12-24V converter instead of an inverter.
_________________
Machine: DreamStation Auto CPAP Machine |
Mask: Quattro™ Air Full Face Mask with Headgear |
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier |
Additional Comments: Pressure 9-20, average ~9.5; often use battery power while off-grid |
Hark, how hard he fetches breath . . . Act II, Scene IV, King Henry IV Part I, William Shakespeare
Choosing a Battery thread: http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1140 ... ttery.html
Choosing a Battery thread: http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1140 ... ttery.html
Re: 12VDC to 24VDC converter or a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter
that all depends on what system you're using:Bama Rambler wrote:Unless you're willing to get a TSW (True Sine Wave) inverter I'd go with the 12v to 24v converter.
http://www.resmed.com/assets/documents/ ... lo_eng.pdf
s9, modified sine wave 150 watt is fine according to resmed. even with humidifier.
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Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
Re: 12VDC to 24VDC converter or a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter
You are powering a very costly machine that would like the safest power source you can provide. If I had one, it would be running on a full sine wave UPS, even when hooked up to the house mains.
That said, the next safest would be two deep charge 12 volt wired in series for 24 volts. If I had to drag that costly of a machine around, I would buy a more power friendly APAP to use for travel, not a Resmed ever....
By using power converters you are betting nothing is going to malfunction, on a machine that has little built in to provide safety for your equipment. Motors and lights are forgiving of power changes, things with circuit boards, not so much.
The great outdoors are really nice, but now I stay close to home due to hezlth and aging concerns. I accept my limitations, not that I like it, but my days of rock climbing our over, it's too hard pulling the wheel chair up to the top.
That said, the next safest would be two deep charge 12 volt wired in series for 24 volts. If I had to drag that costly of a machine around, I would buy a more power friendly APAP to use for travel, not a Resmed ever....
By using power converters you are betting nothing is going to malfunction, on a machine that has little built in to provide safety for your equipment. Motors and lights are forgiving of power changes, things with circuit boards, not so much.
The great outdoors are really nice, but now I stay close to home due to hezlth and aging concerns. I accept my limitations, not that I like it, but my days of rock climbing our over, it's too hard pulling the wheel chair up to the top.
Use data to optimize your xPAP treatment!
"The art of medicine consists in amusing the patient while nature cures the disease." Voltaire
"The art of medicine consists in amusing the patient while nature cures the disease." Voltaire
Re: 12VDC to 24VDC converter or a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter
generally, I'm happy to accept the manufacturers recommendation as to what their machines need, instead of trying to second guess them.
switch mode power supplies, like that in the resmed brick, really don't care about sine wave power. inductive power supplies (read, big heavy transformers DO care, the harmonics caused by the square waves cause them to overheat.
see also:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_square_wav ... ic_devices
http://electronics.stackexchange.com/qu ... e-computer
switch mode power supplies, like that in the resmed brick, really don't care about sine wave power. inductive power supplies (read, big heavy transformers DO care, the harmonics caused by the square waves cause them to overheat.
see also:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_square_wav ... ic_devices
http://electronics.stackexchange.com/qu ... e-computer
Get OSCAR
Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
Re: 12VDC to 24VDC converter or a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter
If anything, switching power supplies like the S9 power brick run better off a MSW inverter than a true sine wave.Goofproof wrote:You are powering a very costly machine that would like the safest power source you can provide. If I had one, it would be running on a full sine wave UPS, even when hooked up to the house mains.
The pure sine wave inverters are more complicated, and may be less efficient than a MSW inverter. However, there are good and bad designs in MSW and pure sine inverters.
_________________
Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control |
Additional Comments: Also SleepyHead, PRS1 Auto, Respironics Auto M series, Legacy Auto, and Legacy Plus |
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Re: 12VDC to 24VDC converter or a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter
That's why a cheaper apap for camping run straight off a 12volt deep charge battery is a best option, saving the costly machine home safer. Jimarchangle wrote:If anything, switching power supplies like the S9 power brick run better off a MSW inverter than a true sine wave.Goofproof wrote:You are powering a very costly machine that would like the safest power source you can provide. If I had one, it would be running on a full sine wave UPS, even when hooked up to the house mains.
The pure sine wave inverters are more complicated, and may be less efficient than a MSW inverter. However, there are good and bad designs in MSW and pure sine inverters.
You go adding other power solutions and the unknown factors can become costly. Circuits can be engineered correctly, but cost becomes a factor and quality goes out the window.
Use data to optimize your xPAP treatment!
"The art of medicine consists in amusing the patient while nature cures the disease." Voltaire
"The art of medicine consists in amusing the patient while nature cures the disease." Voltaire
Re: 12VDC to 24VDC converter or a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter
Thank you to all who took the time and interest to answer my question. I was overwhelmed by the depth of your responses.
I had posted this question just before needing to make a decision on a device to purchase. We were leaving for camping in a few days. Without the benefit of your wisdom I bought a 175W inverter. It was manufactured by Go Power. It along with the battery out of my Chevy Tracker worked just fine.
Thanks again,
Leo
I had posted this question just before needing to make a decision on a device to purchase. We were leaving for camping in a few days. Without the benefit of your wisdom I bought a 175W inverter. It was manufactured by Go Power. It along with the battery out of my Chevy Tracker worked just fine.
Thanks again,
Leo
_________________
Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control |
Additional Comments: I am using an S9 VPAP Adapt Machine. I have complex sleep apnea. |
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Re: 12VDC to 24VDC converter or a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter
I've got my resmed s8 on D'Cruz power but having trouble getting it to go to the welcome screen and start working. Got it going once, but cannot get it going again. Are there any sequence of buttons that will help me go to the start up.
Re: 12VDC to 24VDC converter or a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter
Not sure what alarryperryau wrote:I've got my resmed s8 on D'Cruz power but having trouble getting it to go to the welcome screen and start working. Got it going once, but cannot get it going again. Are there any sequence of buttons that will help me go to the start up.
is but is it fully changed?D'Cruz power
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Re: 12VDC to 24VDC converter or a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter
If you read the thread you will see that getting Resmed machines to work maybe a little complex because of the 24 volts required. I suggest you start a new thread with the name of the power source in the title - you might get more attention that way. Also, explain what the D'Cruz power actually is.larryperryau wrote:I've got my resmed s8 on D'Cruz power but having trouble getting it to go to the welcome screen and start working. Got it going once, but cannot get it going again. Are there any sequence of buttons that will help me go to the start up.
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Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Use SleepyHead software. |
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Re: 12VDC to 24VDC converter or a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter
ResMed still hasn't released the DC to DC converter for the Airsense 10 and I need to find a power source from my 12V battery supply in my travel trailer to power it. I sent ResMed an email asking about using a modified sine wave inverter but haven't heard anything back yet. I don't use the humidifier or the heated tube. I found a couple of 12 to 24vdc converters on Amazon for $25-$35 that look like they would work. Does anyone have any idea of the size of the power plug on the Airsense 10? I also found a cigarette lighter plug type on the internet that has the option of several different adapter tips but don't know which one I need to fit the Airsense 10.