Hans Rudolph

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
FL andy
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Hans Rudolph

Post by FL andy » Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:35 am

Kelly Rudolph wrote:
Andy,
I was just wondering which of our Dishwasher Safe CPAP Masks you were wearing now and if you have had good results....

So, would your insurance company/coverage allow you to pay out of your pocket and amount that is over the standard reimbursement on a Nasal Mask & Headgear? If so, how much would you pay if you had a mask that was comfortable and guaranteed to fit leak free?

Thanks,
Kelly Rudolph
.


Mr. Rudolph,

SINCE YOU ASKED....that same "pleasant and very knowledgable woman with whom I spoke" previously - never called me back as she promised she would.

She had told me she would contact my Pulmonologist about both fitting and prescribing the HR FF mask. They told me they did not get a call from her.

I called her again but she didn't call me back again.

So, in answer to your questions:
1. I never got a HR mask.
2. My insurance coverage is Medicare and I understand that I am not permitted to pay more than their allowable amount.

Andy

Last edited by FL andy on Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kelly Rudolph

which Hans Rudolph Mask are you wearing.New Custom Mask soon

Post by Kelly Rudolph » Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:39 pm

Andy,
I was just wondering which of our Dishwasher Safe CPAP Masks you were wearing now and if you have had good results. Full Face or Nasal and what size and what headgear and are you using seal accessories.

I also want to ask you (and others who will give us feedback) the following questions:
would you or could you pay extra for a Custom Fitting Nasal CPAP Mask?
(Full Face is coming but Nasal is our first concern). We have technology that allows us to send a digital Camera mounted to & calibrated with a small projector to your Dr., Lab, or Homecare Dealer so they can take a photo of your face & then email that jpeg file to us so we can make a custom shell/cone that follows your exact face geometry/curves and therefore allows a leakfree comfortable custom fit. Currently there is no reimbursement for a higher priced custom CPAP mask. So, would your insurance company/coverage allow you to pay out of your pocket and amount that is over the standard reimbursement on a Nasal Mask & Headgear? If so, how much would you pay if you had a mask that was comfortable and guaranteed to fit leak free? this product is very dynamic but more costly so in the USA we are finding road blocks cause the Dealers don't think that patients will pay much if any and in most cases the contracts with the insurance companies(Medicare, Medicaid, public and private carriers, etc.) won't allow the Dealer to take any money or very little from the patient.

Please help us solve these issues to get this great mask on the market.
We can re-take your photo as your face changes, we can ship directly to your home (if required) a day or two after the photo is emailed to us or we can get it to you thru your Homecare Dealer. Another question is will the person taking the photo (Dr., Lab Tech, Dealer) pay approx. 450 for the Camera & projector to be used over and over on all patients?

Thanks,
Kelly Rudolph
Hans Rudolph, inc. K.C. MO 64114. (800)456-6695, e: hri@rudolphkc.com

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Severeena
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Post by Severeena » Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:02 pm

Kelley Thank you for coming on the forum to explain things for those that have questions about the Hans Rudolph.

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allen
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Post by allen » Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:21 pm

Kelly,
It is indeed good to see you interacting with those of us who depend on CPAP masks. Thanks for coming around.

I own a Hans Rudolf FF mask and it has been a great disappointment to me, as I've mentioned elsewhere on this board. I'm not angry about it or harboring ill feelings about you or your company, the mask is just something that I cannot wear at all comfortably or use without major leaks.

Would I pay big bucks for a custom fit mask? No. The concept of being able to custom fit a mask digitally is cool, but I just don't believe that a custom fit could compensate for facial movement during the night, tossing/turning, rolling over, etc...

If I heard from many users that the custom fit masks were THE very best solution and "the only way to go" then I'd consider purchasing one. However, I'd expect a really great guarantee: Money back and/or mask replacement(s) if the mask isn't comfortable to wear and absolutely leak free--and for an extended period, like 6 months. Obviously, business wise that kind of guarantee is just not feasible--but that's what it would take to get me to spring for a mask that costs considerably more than others that work adequately.

Allen



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FL andy
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Post by FL andy » Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:24 pm

Sorry guys,

The NOW top (first) message above dated December 21, 2005 is a goof by me. I tried to reply to Mr. Rudolph and also include my original December 21 message as part of the quote - but I must have hit the "edit" button instead of the "quote" button in my Dec 21 post. That resulted in deleting my original Dec 21 message.

In that original Dec 21 post, I praised the Hans Rudolph Company for their help and professionalism. My message above should have been a rejection of what I originally posted. Their employee never, ever called me back.

Andy

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neversleeps
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Post by neversleeps » Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:11 pm

Kelly Rudolph wrote:I also want to ask you (and others who will give us feedback) the following questions:
would you or could you pay extra for a Custom Fitting Nasal CPAP Mask?
(Full Face is coming but Nasal is our first concern). We have technology that allows us to send a digital Camera mounted to & calibrated with a small projector to your Dr., Lab, or Homecare Dealer so they can take a photo of your face & then email that jpeg file to us so we can make a custom shell/cone that follows your exact face geometry/curves and therefore allows a leakfree comfortable custom fit. Currently there is no reimbursement for a higher priced custom CPAP mask. So, would your insurance company/coverage allow you to pay out of your pocket and amount that is over the standard reimbursement on a Nasal Mask & Headgear?
First of all, Kelly, may I say how fantastic it is to see a mask manufacturer rep taking such an interest in the opinions of cpap users and posting on this forum. I think this is a first. Thank you!

No, I would not pay extra for a custom-fitted mask. The HR is already expensive. Then if you have to buy the sensa seal it's even more expensive. Then if it doesn't work for you (as it didn't for me), you've just blown over $200.00.

A custom-designed mask following the exact contours of my face sounds great in theory, but I have my doubts about the effectiveness of such a mask. Is this photo taken while I'm lying down with my head on my pillow in my bed while staring up at the ceiling? The contours of my face are very different when I'm lying down vs. sitting up. What about when I turn onto my right side? The contours of my face (with the effects of gravity) are very different when my head is turned to the right vs. lying down. What about when I turn onto my left side? Do you see what I mean? How would your custom-designed mask accommodate for this and remain sealed and leak-free?
Kelly Rudolph wrote:If so, how much would you pay if you had a mask that was comfortable and guaranteed to fit leak free?
Are you saying it would be guaranteed to be comfortable and leak-free or I would get all my money back? Dang! I don't suppose you can apply that deal retroactively....

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rested gal
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Re: which Hans Rudolph Mask are you wearing.New Custom Mask

Post by rested gal » Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:53 pm

Kelly Rudolph wrote: I also want to ask you (and others who will give us feedback) the following questions:
would you or could you pay extra for a Custom Fitting Nasal CPAP Mask?
I would definitely pay "extra" for a custom fitting mask if the company stands behind it with a full money back guarantee should the mask not provide a comfortable and leakproof fit. That would be a miracle mask, indeed.
Kelly Rudolph wrote: how much would you pay if you had a mask that was comfortable and guaranteed to fit leak free?
Since I buy all my own masks out of pocket, the amount I, personally, would be willing to pay would depend entirely on the terms of the guarantee. i would most definitely be willing to pay quite a bit more than the usual price for premium masks -- for a mask that was guaranteed to be both comfortable and leak free. A company willing to stand behind a mask with a full money back guarantee would impress me enough that I'd spend a lot of extra dollars to try it.

If it really, truly works for most people...really has a guarantee that it will provide a comfortable, leak free fit... then Kelly, I think you would find word-of-mouth advertising spreading through message boards, A.W.A.K.E. support groups, patient advocate groups, etc., to the point that DME's would take notice.

It wouldn't take many DME's using it for the word to spread more and more until your digital face-mapping cameras would start showing up all over the country. "My DME had a camera that that took a picture of my face and the mask was custom made to fit me perfectly. Didn't your DME do that?!!"

$450 for the camera would be a drop in the bucket to the DME, if grass roots demand for that mask built up the way it could through internet message board and local support groups' word-of-mouth praise.

Over the next twenty years more and more baby boomers will be diagnosed with OSA, will be getting cpap machines...and... masks. A comfortable, leak free mask is the absolute #1 key to compliance with cpap treatment, imho. Baby boomers are also comfortable with computers. They turn to the internet for information. That includes information about methods and equipment to treat their disorders as they age!

If your custom mask truly can do what you say it will, I think there'll be more than enough baby boomers with the means to pay out of pocket, and (more importantly) the willingness to pay a premium price out of pocket for a mask guaranteed to have a comfortable, leak free fit.

As a practical way to get the ball rolling, have you thought about offering to loan the camera (with a $450 deposit) to people who are interested in seeing if a mask mapped that way and then purchased under your guarantee can live up to real sleeping conditions? Real cpap users who are savvy about what it takes for a mask to work properly.

I must admit, I have the exact same misgivings as Never Sleeps about how it would maintain its "custom fitted" seal as a person turned, moved their head, etc...all the changing positions that make gravity pull the cheeks one way and another. If you all have a cushion that can cope with the dynamics of REAL sleeping conditions successfully and comfortably, then you do have a mask worth sticking a money-back guarantee on. People wouldn't be returning a mask that really IS "comfortable" and really IS "leak free."

Kelly, given the concerns raised by DME's your company has contacted, I think you're doing exactly what it will take to make your company's custom fitted mask idea eventually reach the really big market -- the DME's. It will have to be a grass roots effort if it takes off at all. Not many mask manufacturers have the nerve to come onto a message board and speak of their mask being guaranteed to provide "comfort" and "leak free fit". If it can live up to that, and if the custom fitting mask carries a money back guarantee, you've got a real winner and the word will spread.

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twistedcherokee
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Post by twistedcherokee » Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:08 pm

I just wish I didn't have to go through a DME to get one of your masks. I have heard some good things about your FF and am thinking of getting a new FF. I had a Resperonics Comfortfull and it worked well untill it started to break up.

Toby


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Post by Guest » Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:20 pm

Toby, you can order one directly from an online store and don't have to go through a DME.


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Severeena
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Post by Severeena » Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:01 pm

You also do not need a prescription either for this.


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mikemoran
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Post by mikemoran » Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:26 pm

Kelly,

I am willing to pay alot extra for a mask that actually fits. My only problem is the DME will be charging twice as much as any price point you set and that i am not willing to pay. They will try to recover the $450 from the first two customers that order one. Additionally, they will crank up the mask price because of insurance re-imbursements.

My suggestion is you provide the camera and projector to a Dr. or DME in every major metropolitan city for no cost. With the stipulation that they can charge a $25 sizing fee to take and transmit the photo. Once the photo is taken then the patient can order from them or any other source they want to. Like these fine folks at CPAP.com. If the DME or Dr.s are good then maybe the patient will order from them and they can give them a $25 credit towards the purchase.

Try this out as a pilot program. DC would be a nice start I really don't like the idea of being locked into a supplier because he has the only way I can be sized.

Just my food for thought.


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ozij
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Post by ozij » Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:45 pm

OK, suppose the mask is as leakless and comfortable as guaranteed, and the HR company are making money on it, because the masks are so good practically nobody returns them.

* What about replacement parts - they also have to be custom fitted and made - how many will be included in the original purchase? How often do patients have to replace parts, and what are the prices for those going to be? How often would you recommend a re-fit due to face change? Will return customers have better prices? Have you planned on keeping patients' data in a data base, so that masks can be re-produced without repeat measurement?

O.

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twistedcherokee
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Post by twistedcherokee » Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:29 am

I have looked on several sites and no luck. Ant reason cpap.com doesn't sell them. I rather keep my buisness with them.

Toby


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Severeena
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Post by Severeena » Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:40 am

twistedcherokee, the cpapman.com has the HR online.

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Trust in the Lord with all thine heart and lean not until thine own understanding ..... Proverbs 3:5-


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twistedcherokee
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Post by twistedcherokee » Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:04 pm

Thanks, found it.

Toby