?for Rested gal about home screening with APAP

[Pugsy]

Here's the deal guys. I need to get my sister tested for sleep apnea. She refuses to ask the doctor about it because she doesn't want it on her medical records if she has it. I know, dumb ass way to look at things but what can I do? Turn my head and watch her have a stroke or something when I could have maybe helped?
No sense it telling me all the reasons she needs a professional sleep study. I know the reasons and I have clearly explained each one to her. I don't have the money for a recording pulse oximeter so we will just have to wait on that tool.

I understand central apneas and that risk. We will just have to cross that bridge if we come to it.

So which settings to set up my machine to get a ball park idea if she is having events? APAP with min and max 5?? or 5-6 min/max? I am not so worried about treating at the moment and I didn't want pressure variations to wake her up and I wanted the data that APAP gives me. I foresee my sister being a big whiner about the air pressure. She is not nearly as adventuresome as I am.

To Rested Gal: I know you self tested. How did you do it? I only have the Optilife nasal pillows and the Swift LT for Her masks. No way am I going to try to fit the hyrid on her. If she opens mouth we will just deal with it.
I plan to go to her house and spend the night there to get the best chance of more hours on the machine. Wonder if I should sneak her one of my Ambiens?

Hints anyone?
Brenda

[rested gal]

Wellllll, I'm not a doctor or anything in the health care field, and this isn't medical advice, and this is only what I'd do, if it were me, and .... you know the drill!!

First and foremost, I'd make SURE of these things:

1. that my sister really, really, really was already quite convinced for herself that she almost CERTAINLY does have sleep apnea.
2. that my sister really, really, really understood what untreated sleep apnea does to people.
3. that my sister really, really REALLY was very much gung ho about trying "CPAP" and open to the idea of using CPAP for every sleeping moment of the rest of her life, if she does have OSA.

If all those "really's" are not in place, the danger is that she would dislike the first time of trying to wear a mask (even a very unobtrusive mask like the Swift nasal pillows) sooooo much, that one night of trying "CPAP" would turn her off completely to the idea of that kind of therapy at all. Ever again.

With all that out of the way...

For purely diagnostic purposes, I'd set the auto at min 4, max 4. The lower the minimum pressure, the more "events" (apneas and hypopneas) will be let through. And it's events you're wanting to have piling up, for your sister to see. Even a pressure of 4 is "some" pressure and may prevent some events that she'd have otherwise had.

It's good that you're planning to be there all night. You can note whether she mouth breathes in her sleep, tries to remove mask in her sleep. You can adjust the nasal pillows during her sleep if you notice them getting out of place, causing leaks.

She refuses to ask the doctor about it because she doesn't want it on her medical records if she has it.

That's a very understandable reason, and not a bad reason at all for deciding to treat oneself for obvious sleep apnea instead of getting an official diagnosis.

As you well know, there can be other separate sleep disorders (particularly Periodic Limb Movement Disorder -- PMLD) that can wreck sleep even if a person doesn't have OSA or has well treated OSA. A full PSG sleep study would be the best way to go. But if the person flat refuses that, and you know the person well enough to know that they really mean it... you do what you can.

Good luck!

Oh, and yeah, if she wants to take an Ambien for the big occasion, that would be a good idea, imho!!

[Pugsy]

1. that my sister really, really, really was already quite convinced for herself that she almost CERTAINLY does have sleep apnea.
2. that my sister really, really, really understood what untreated sleep apnea does to people.
3. that my sister really, really REALLY was very much gung ho about trying "CPAP" and open to the idea of using CPAP for every sleeping moment of the rest of her life, if she does have OSA.

It is number 3 that I am concerned with. My sister doesn't have much patience. If I can get lucky and help her daily headaches, then I will have a convert for sure. She has seen the difference first hand with me and my headaches. Also she has a weight problem and dieting is a struggle with minimal results. She is "always hungry" and I am hoping to get lucky in that area also. Though I haven't dwelt on the weight thing. Mainly I have stressed helping the elevated BP, headaches and general fatigue that she experiences.

The only symptom she doesn't have is GERD. I will be surprised if she doesn't have OSA but if she doesn't at least I don't have that worry in the back of my mind. I can then chalk her bitchiness up to simply being a bitch.

Minimum and max at 4 with Ambien. Sounds like a plan.
Thanks,
Brenda

[jnk]

Starting at 4 cm makes sense, but I would find it hard to breathe through pillows at that low of a pressure. So I might be prepared to raise pressure slightly if she found it hard to breathe.

As a side point, some of my friends with sleep apnea think of their machine strictly as an anti-snore-and-pro-good-sleep machine. They can't seem to wrap their minds around their having a serious medical condition. They are still 100% compliant, using the machine all night every night, but they prefer not to come to grips mentally with why they feel so much better doing so.

Similarly, approaching everything well under the radar, from a "better-sleep-with-no-snoring" angle, might keep things completely out of the overt medical diagnosis/treatment realm insurance-wise too.

The head-on approach is best, in my opinion, exactly as you both mention. But I think some also do well coming at the thing sideways for coping reasons. The main thing is what they do, more than why they do it, until they are ready to get the full picture, if that time comes for them. And for some, it may not ever come.

Just my 2 cents, for whatever it is or isn't worth in practice.

And I too COMPLETELY understand the idea of avoiding the insurance issues.

Rested gal (or anyone else), please correct anything I just said that could be said better.

jeff

[Muse-Inc]

[quote="Pugsy]...weight problem and dieting is a struggle with minimal results. She is "always hungry"...[/quote]

Food for thought :
Low carb helps cut the 'always hungry' syndrome because you don't restrict the amt of food eaten just the type which avoids the yo-yo of insulin-blood sugar swings that may cause insatiable hunger. Low carb eating has a good record for producing results right away. Plus, it eliminates what many of us are intolerant of, grains or gluten, both of which can cause that always hungry feeling sorta like an addiction.

Now, that said, I'm taking 125 mgs of grape seed extract daily with breakfast and my appetite is now gone...not a little, but totally. I have to remind myself to eat on a regular basis so for me, an insatiable eater in the past, this is pretty amazing. My mom experienced a huge drop in appetite from just 25 mgms/day but she's just a little overweight. While I have not experienced a drop in appetite or wt loss using CPAP, eventually I did have increased energy levels and desire for more activities that burned calories. Oh, last night I ate a very small bit of wheat and bam I got the munchies about an hr later, just re-confirming that I really need to avoid wheat.

Good luck!

[Gerald]

Pugsy.....

For those people I've helped.....similar to the way you're trying to help your sister.....I went at it in a different way.

I loaned these people my recording Oximeter....and let them prove to themselves that they have an O2 problem (suffocation) when they are asleep.

It took my honey 3-weeks of wearing the Oximeter every night....before she convinced herself that she needed CPAP therapy. Once she started testing herself, she couldn't wait for me to run the report for her....every morning....so that she could compare the night's results....with previous nights. It fascinated her....and made her interested. It "quantified" her problem.....the O2 saturation numbers....and pulse rate info....showed her exactly what was going on.

The Oximeter is not bothersome during the night....not near like a CPAP machine is....and I think it's a good way to go. My SPO-7500 cost me nearly $500 a year or so ago....i purchased it from Turnermedical.com. My Oximeter has helped me, my honey, and two other people. In my opinion, it's paid for itself many times over.....and it's still running great (I used it last night to check myself).

Finally, Turner Medical was easy to do business with....nice people.....safe to do business with.

Gerald

[OutaSync]

Food for thought :
Low carb helps cut the 'always hungry' syndrome because you don't restrict the amt of food eaten just the type which avoids the yo-yo of insulin-blood sugar swings that may cause insatiable hunger. Low carb eating has a good record for producing results right away. Plus, it eliminates what many of us are intolerant of, grains or gluten, both of which can cause that always hungry feeling sorta like an addiction.

Now, that said, I'm taking 125 mgs of grape seed extract daily with breakfast and my appetite is now gone...not a little, but totally. I have to remind myself to eat on a regular basis so for me, an insatiable eater in the past, this is pretty amazing. My mom experienced a huge drop in appetite from just 25 mgms/day but she's just a little overweight. While I have not experienced a drop in appetite or wt loss using CPAP, eventually I did have increased energy levels and desire for more activities that burned calories. Oh, last night I ate a very small bit of wheat and bam I got the munchies about an hr later, just re-confirming that I really need to avoid wheat.

Good luck!

Muse-Inc,

I'm so glad that you joined this forum.. I enjoy reading your posts and always learn something new. I really would like to get rid of that hungy-all-the-time feeling. Any downside to taking grape seed extract?

Bev

[Muse-Inc]

...I really would like to get rid of that hungy-all-the-time feeling. Any downside to taking grape seed extract?

Haven't experienced one yet unless reduced appetite makes ya QUIT eating totally ! That feeling is so difficult to deal with just like that orange beastie in the WW ads!

Thanks for the comment, I'm fasincated by nutrition and brain functioning in general and esp as it affects medical conditions I or my family/friends experience...I'm cautious before trying anything new as I react to everything ( always end up with side effects from drugs ) so gotta find multiple confirmations or OK from doc before trying.

[roster]

"You can lead a horticulture but you can't make her think."

-Dorothy Parker

[Pugsy]

Now, that said, I'm taking 125 mgs of grape seed extract daily with breakfast and my appetite is now gone.

Regarding the grape seed extract. I did see your mention of it a few days ago and I told my sister about it and she just got some yesterday. I have also started taking it. I just have an extra 20 lbs to get rid of.
She has been under a doctor's care for the weight. Low carb diet. Metaformin (Ext Release) but simply could not tolerate it though it did curb the appetite. She isn't morbidly obese or anything like that, just wants to prevent that from occurring and get a better handle on things. I have seen her eat. I do not understand her comment that she is "always hungry". She needs to exercise some portion control. I saw those carbs she consumed in that low carb diet...... Hmmmm. I bit my tongue from saying anything.

Anyway, you would have to know my sister. I don't ever try to "tell" her anything. I see no sense in beating my head against that wall. I will do my part to see if she does have sleep apnea. If she does, it may explain the need to eat a bit because we search for any way to boost energy and food is a common source. If not, then we will worry about that later.

I didn't sugar coat the sleep apnea therapy. I didn't sugar coat the effects from non therapy either. I don't know of any other way to tackle something than head on. She seems to actually feel like I did before I got my diagnosis where I actually welcomed the idea of sleep apnea as a cause for so many of my symptoms. At least there was something that could be tried to alleviate symptoms. It is better than being told it is all in your head, hormonal, or "gosh, we don't know why".

[Pugsy]

I loaned these people my recording Oximeter....and let them prove to themselves that they have an O2 problem (suffocation) when they are asleep.

I want an Oximeter. I just won't have the funds available for a good one for a couple of months. I paid for the Respironics machine out of pocket as well as the software. I just didn't want to put off any longer trying to get some sort of idea if my sister really had sleep apnea. She has taken all the "sleep apnea test questions" and they all point to it, so she does see that it is a strong possibility. I finally got her head out of the sand so I might as well get something accomplished while I have her attention.

[Muse-Inc]

how the heck do i delete a dup post????

[Muse-Inc]

Low carb diet...portion control

I can only eat 8-12 grams of carb per meal and only about 5-6 gms per snack (ex: 1 cheese stick+4 fresh raspberries) or I gain wt (have high insulin levels, insulin stores calories not used for in daily activities[I exercise 45 mins/day], eating fewer carbs lowers average insulin levels...eventually). Eating this way (I eat lots of low carb veggies.. that's for those who might be shrieking I'm not eating veggies/fruit) has helped me lose 50#s so far. "Control" for me is not 'size' but 'carb' . You're sister isn't taking the "low" in low carb seriously .

I have a lot more wt to lose, probably why I have high insulin levels, inflammation, slightly raised cortisol & CRP...1 step at a time that's all I hafta remember, 1 step at a time. Off to cook lunch: taco beef salad with cilantro, shredded cheese, diced tomatoes.

[Pugsy]

You're sister isn't taking the "low" in low carb seriously .

Oh, I know this but you will never hear me tell her this... Plus her doctor's "low" carb amount is actually fairly generous, so the results are slow in showing up.

I tackle only the battles that I stand some chance of success with. My sister's diet is not one of them. I watched her use 4 of those little grape jelly things at the cafe the other day. Each with a half a slice of toast. Along with a good sized breakfast skillet (meat, hasbrowns, eggs). All the while complaining about her diet. I bit my tongue.
She doesn't need or want my comments.

[Muse-Inc]

I tackle only the battles that I stand some chance of success with

Good policy! I try to follow that too.

I watched her use 4 of those little grape jelly things at the cafe the other day. Each with a half a slice of toast. Along with a good sized breakfast skillet (meat, hasbrowns, eggs). All the while complaining about her diet. I bit my tongue.

Gee, mine is typically 3 extra large eggs, 6 oz low sodium V8, a few fresh berries. 18 gms per slice of std white bread makes 36 right there!!! Waay more than a single low carb meal

She doesn't need or want my commtents.

What was it I read here...DeNial???