My numbers are low...so why do i still feel like cr*p???

reducha · Post by **reducha** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:51 am

My numbers from the previous nights sleep are always low. Even my leak rates are low. So why do i always feel terrible the next day? lately i have been averaging:;pressure: 17.6
leak: .12
ahi: 5.0
ai: .5
hi: 4.0
I'm going on a couple of yearsnow with my cpap to no success.I've played with pressures, moved from autopap to cpap. The numbers seem alright now..but i've always felt terrible. any suggestions??? thanks everyone!

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:06 am

Define cr*p.

Do you mean tired and sleepy? ... indicating inability to reach deep stage sleep.

or,

Do you mean headaches and body aches? ... indicating symptoms of hypoxia.

bap40 · Post by **bap40** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:40 am

Maybe you have some additional sleep problems not addressed by CPAP use.

GumbyCT · Post by **GumbyCT** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:03 am

bap40 wrote:Maybe you have some additional sleep problems not addressed by CPAP use.

Certainly or the wrong pressure even.

mellabella · Post by **mellabella** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:09 am

YOur pressure could be high enough to prevent full apneas (or hypopneas) but not high enough to prevent RERAs (respiratory event related arousals, created by flow limitations).

jnk · Post by **jnk** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:58 am

And don't forget all the other "sleep hygiene" related stuff . . .

http://www.umm.edu/sleep/sleep_hyg.htm

http://www.sleepeducation.com/Hygiene.aspx

http://www.helpguide.org/life/sleep_tips.htm

http://www.sleepoz.org.au/files/fact_sh ... ygiene.pdf

reducha · Post by **reducha** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:58 am

Sorry for the lack of clarity. By cr*p, i did indeed mean tired and fatigue. As for other sleep related issues, nothing else was mentioned to me in any of my three sleep studys. I have played with pressures, from lowering to raising them to the maximum(20 on resmed s8) and no results that gave me any refreshing mornings.

p.s. Dreamstaler, great moniker(artwork) wwhere is that picture from??

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:45 am

My suggestion:

1. Get out copies of your past PSG's. Look at them carefully including the wording found in the findings for microarousals and pay attention to sleep architecture.

2. As mentioned, you can get your AHI down to very low levels meaning OSA portion of your disorder is effectively treated but the arousals classified as spontaneous arousals may not be addressed at all.

3. These arousals are seen on the EEG and similar to the arousals associated with an apnea except they don't know the cause of them so they get labeled "spontaneous". It is not the event itself that destroys sleep architecture it is the associated arousals. Arousals from limb or leg movements also have an associated arousal, since they can detect leg/limb movement with detectors they can identify those.

There can be many causes and theories on what causes those spontaneous arousals, but your guess is almost as good as mine, some things thought to contribute to them are:

-muscle skeletal pains (like a chronic bad back, arthritis etc.)
-medications especially SSRI's
-snoring
-oh yeah, UARS a few think that is associated with those spontaneous arousals but I haven't seen any hard evidence of that yet.

So I would try and obtain at least the last 2 PSG's from the Sleep Lab if you can, they should be pretty comprehensive. Many times the sleep doc just takes the findings page and that is all you see, they totally miss those other items, but you don't know that until you read over the report yourself.

Machine-wise, if it is a Vantage it is already a flow limitation and snore killer, it will chase those to no avail. If your pressure is at or above 10 cm, that will be the only thing it chases. You would not want to limit any Maximum pressure setting, I would open that up to 20 cm unless you know for sure you have some CA or Central Apnea.

So the only suggestion i can make is get out your PSG's and go over them with a fine tooth comb especially at anything hinting about microarousals.

Other things that can make you fatigued: Blood disorders, prior stroke, cancer or tumors.

Lee22633 · Post by **Lee22633** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:36 am

I have been reading about Central and Complex SA and this would fit the bill. The OSA part is taken care of during your sleep, no obstructions, but OSA can turn into the others. Central moreso. They don't know much about it as you'll see when you do a search, and it is the altered breathing that causes problems. Also, neuromuscular problems can happen to make your SA different.

I ran off the road on Saturday and was CTed and xrayed in the neck area again. They show a dexicurvature in the lower C-spine which is being caused by muscle spasms to bring on the scoliosis. Nice uh. Guess I now have proof of things going wrong.

As for the actions of the muscles, I have had spasms that cut my air off or threaten to while wide awake. And recently just before the accident Saturday, I found I just stopped breathing. Got light headed, pain in neck, head the ususal, and barely made it to the bed to collapse across it, to conserve what I had. Lasted only 5 minutes, the bad part, but took another 20 to fully recover. Freaking crap going on, something new every single stinking week and the Soma is on hold for now. Stuff makes me too loopy. I'll post about the accident later. You'll love it. No one hurt, just a bit of car booboos.
Lee

danmc · Post by **danmc** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:49 am

reducha wrote:
p.s. Dreamstaler, great moniker(artwork) wwhere is that picture from??

_________________

I was intrigued by Dreamstalker's avatar as well - I asked him, maybe he didn't notice, maybe he likes mysteries. maybe I'm a tad childish for him:P

Anyway, I took it as a challenge, figured it out and got my avatar hoping for an eventual game of "Guess the Avatar". Any takers?

Sorry Dreamstalker...Next time use a boring avatar

danmc · Post by **danmc** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:04 pm

Jeez Lee, you aren't having much luck mate.

LavenderMist · Post by **LavenderMist** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:47 pm

A lot of good advice has already been given. Did I read that correctly? Your AHI is 5.0???? I'd feel like crap w/ that ahi too. I feel like crap if mine gets over 2.0

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): AHI

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:59 pm

danmc wrote:
reducha wrote:
p.s. Dreamstaler, great moniker(artwork) wwhere is that picture from??

I was intrigued by Dreamstalker's avatar as well - I asked him, maybe he didn't notice, maybe he likes mysteries. maybe I'm a tad childish for him:P

Anyway, I took it as a challenge, figured it out and got my avatar hoping for an eventual game of "Guess the Avatar". Any takers?

Sorry Dreamstalker...Next time use a boring avatar

artwork stolen off the internet (aren't they all?) ... Tlaloc

danmc · Post by **danmc** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:30 pm

Haha Dreameaver, I looked at the filename then looked it up. Actually you gave me a good little puzzle to solve. I recall thinking that it was a good choice when I figured it - isn't he a god of dreams or something like that?

I changed the filename on mine to make the game harder...lol I'm such a child!

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:37 pm

DreamStalker wrote:
danmc wrote:
reducha wrote:
p.s. Dreamstaler, great moniker(artwork) wwhere is that picture from??

I was intrigued by Dreamstalker's avatar as well - I asked him, maybe he didn't notice, maybe he likes mysteries. maybe I'm a tad childish for him:P

Anyway, I took it as a challenge, figured it out and got my avatar hoping for an eventual game of "Guess the Avatar". Any takers?

Sorry Dreamstalker...Next time use a boring avatar

artwork stolen off the internet (aren't they all?) ... Tlaloc

and ALL this time I thought that was a picture of your bong

Mask

Additional Comments: SPO7500 recording pulse oximeter, resmed ultra-mirage full face mask