QUESTION FOR PB 420E USERS....

neversleeps · Post by **neversleeps** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:48 pm

Is there anyone using a 420E who has experienced runaway pressure that was NOT resolved by turning off the IFL1?

TXKajun · Post by **TXKajun** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:05 pm

I have used my 420E for almost 4 months now with both the IFL off and on....currently on. I have noticed that with it off, the pressures rarely get above about 14 or so. With it on, I am awakened once in a great while with the pressure up around 15 or 16, once up to 18. But no pressure runaways that I'm aware of, either with the IFL on or off. My titrated pressure was 16. I've got the pressures set right now from 4 to 20, but will change it to narrow the range when I do my next download of data.

I'm about due to download another month's worth a data soon. It's all with the IFL on. I've tried to keep the changes I make down to once a month and monitor for the month to get a representative reading. I figure tweaking the settings on a daily basis will only confuse me (NOT hard to do! LOL). Besides, I've got the rest of my life to experiment with my APAP. As long as I wake feeling rested after a reasonable period of sleep, I figure the tweaking isn't hurting anything.

OK, I got a bit off subject in the second paragraph. But after all, it's all APAP to me! *G*

This therapy WORKS!

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:25 pm

I always have ifl1 off.
the PB402e sometime sticks on high pressure for me - but only when I'm awake - e.g. trying to fall asleep after waking up. There's something in the algorithm - that causes this, and if you turn the machine off, and then on, the problem resolves itself. The machine is geared to interpret sleep breathing, and some properties of wakeful breathing might confuse it.
(I think I read this in one of -SWS's posts, or one of the refernces in them).
O.

Waverly · Post by **Waverly** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:42 pm

Just because you are awake doesn't mean the pressure isn't needed. IMHO

Bet you didn't even notice it until you looked at the pressure display .

Whatever makes you happy is what works for you.

Waverly

gailzee · Post by **gailzee** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:44 pm

No, I have not had any runaways, and I didn't touch the FL1..what exactly does that do/or/not do anyhow? I have seen this before. I am on apap, just tweaked mine up to 6.5 to 14. I hit a 13 once in the four months of use?

quote="neversleeps"]Is there anyone using a 420E who has experienced runaway pressure that was NOT resolved by turning off the IFL1?

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): 420E[/quote]

neversleeps · Post by **neversleeps** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:19 pm

I know it is risky for a CPAP neophyte like me to answer this question; a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing! But I'll take a stab at it and if I'm wrong someone will tell us!!!

The IFL1 and IFL2 switches are setup to different algorithms and kick in independently of each other when your breathing patterns indicate to the machine that they are needed. It sounds like 99.9% of the PB420E users never need to make any adjustments, nor should they. Those who consistently experience runaway pressures turn off the IFL1 switch (which is apparently the more sensitive of the two) and it solves the problem.

My reason for starting this thread was to find out if anyone who did experience runaways with the 420E did not solve the problem by turning off the IFL1 switch. So far, it sounds like it always works.

I currently use the REMstar Auto and experience runaways constantly (no matter what I set the high pressure to, it runs up there and stays there all night) so I have to use it in CPAP mode only. I am thinking because my breathing patterns are weird, maybe the 420E would be a better machine for me. (And even if I still experience runaways on the 420E, I can always turn off the IFL1 switch. Then I can use the machine as an APAP as it was intended!)

gailzee · Post by **gailzee** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:48 pm

with the Silverlining software you can go from apap/cpap yourself, change your settings, and follow your own progress.
I am on the 420E for four months, and I'm doing ok with it. The older ''dog's of straight cpap seem to be going the way of the Buffalo nickel (for those of us old enuf to have even heard of that!).

I have not had runaway pressure. If I am up reading, sometimes it'll go up a pt. or 2, but then settle back to my starting pressure, which I have now upped to 6.5. I did this as I found I was not feeling much difference at the little bit lower pressure, and so far the 1/2 pt. increase seems comfortable. Nice part of the software allowing me to help ME!

[quote="neversleeps"]I know it is risky for a CPAP neophyte like me to answer this question; a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing! But I'll take a stab at it and if I'm wrong someone will tell us!!!

The IFL1 and IFL2 switches are setup to different algorithms and kick in independently of each other when your breathing patterns indicate to the machine that they are needed. It sounds like 99.9% of the PB420E users never need to make any adjustments, nor should they. Those who consistently experience runaway pressures turn off the IFL1 switch (which is apparently the more sensitive of the two) and it solves the problem.

My reason for starting this thread was to find out if anyone who did experience runaways with the 420E did not solve the problem by turning off the IFL1 switch. So far, it sounds like it always works.

I currently use the REMstar Auto and experience runaways constantly (no matter what I set the high pressure to, it runs up there and stays there all night) so I have to use it in CPAP mode only. I am thinking because my breathing patterns are weird, maybe the 420E would be a better machine for me. (And even if I still experience runaways on the 420E, I can always turn off the IFL1 switch. Then I can use the machine as an APAP as it was intended!)

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:17 pm

Waverly wrote:Just because you are awake doesn't mean the pressure isn't needed. IMHO

Bet you didn't even notice it until you looked at the pressure display .

Lost your bet.
O.

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:36 pm

I'm one of the ones who had to turn IFL1 off on the 420E because of pressure runaways. (Thank God for -SWS!! ) From that point on, the 420E behaved beautifully for me. Excellent machine.

When I later got a REMstar Auto (before Respironics added C-Flex to its auto) I fully expected the REMstar to take off into the stratosphere with me too. Happily, it didn't. Behaved fine. Same with the REMstar Auto with C-flex I have now...no runaway for me.

neversleeps, I know you were not asking about any of that...you are asking specifically if turning off IFL1 ever didn't solve a pressure runaway problem with the 420E.

I just threw in my experience with the 420E and the REMstar Autos as more food for thought for new users.

All that said, I'd add this (lest newcomers start worrying unduly about "pressure runaways"):

Most autopaps work fine for most people...no pressure runaways. It's not something most users of autopaps ever need to be concerned about at all. But for the few who do have it happen consistently with one brand of auto or another, it's nice to compare notes...just as neversleeps intended with this topic.

neversleeps · Post by **neversleeps** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:32 pm

Thanks for your post rested gal. I forgot the most important thing: C.Y.A.!!!!!! (Thank you for doing it for me!!)

I think I have all my answers now. I'm definitely going for the 420E!

glassgal · Post by **glassgal** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:47 pm

Hi Neversleeps,

I don't think that you will go wrong with the PB420E. I had some runaways and turned the IFL1 off early on and have not had any further problems. Great machine and software and so small! I like that you can export the data to Excel -- I am a spreadsheet junkie!

The only real downsides for me are: 1) you have to take the machine to the computer and plug in the serial cable to download, 2) the carry bag is (IMHO) not well designed, and 3) the humidifier tank is not real easy to remove (see the humidifier topic running now for more details).

It is wonderful to travel with -- I went from a 10lbs. ResMed S7 Lightweight (NOT! ) to the PB420E weighing in at about 5 lbs. Both weights include the bag and humidifier. Adding extension cords and surge suppressor also ups the weight. It also has a very small footprint.

I can't resist admiring your dancing blue footed boobie avatar -- those feet don't look real do they?

neversleeps · Post by **neversleeps** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:30 am

Thank you for your information, Jane! I appreciate everything I can learn about the 420E. I am considering getting a separate humidifier (based on the thread you're referring to). I personally never remove my current humidifier to clean it. Just keep refilling it with distilled water. Is the PB420E's integrated humidifier difficult to fill? Or just difficult to remove? You don't have to remove it to fill it, do you?

I love my dancing Blue-footed Booby! I wish I could find an animated dance with both the male and female. No one would believe it was real! (Kinda like its hard to believe the color of the feet....) :

glassgal · Post by **glassgal** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:45 am

I do not remove the humidifier tank except to clean it (infrequently). I keep a funnel and a gallon of distilled water in the bathroom & it is easy to fill from the hose connector. I unplug the humidifier base with tank inserted (the APAP is already undocked) and take the whole humidifier into the bathroom to fill. Then I plug back in and turn on before setting back into the bin that it lives in.

I do undock the APAP from the humidifier as soon as I get up and turn off the humidifier at the same time.

I also put everything with the hose around the perimeter in the bin and cover with a pretty bandana to keep it clean during the day, as well as to disguise the equipment.

I hope that this helps!

Brian000 · Post by **Brian000** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:47 am

glassgal wrote: 2) the carry bag is (IMHO) not well designed,

Can you please elaborate on the problems with the bag's poor design. Also, does the machine pack into it very compactly (unlike the Respironics machines's bags which are much larger (IMO) than they need to be)?

I'm not a PB owner, but tempted.

TXKajun · Post by **TXKajun** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:55 am

Brian, I just packed my 420E this morning for a 2 week vacation. I left the APAP attached to the humidifier (drained the humidifier, of course) and is slipped into the bag snugly and comfortably. My Ultramirage FF mask fit easily into the 2nd part of the bag and had enough room for the transformer for the APAP (the part you plug into the outlet) and the power cord for the humidifier. Everything zipped up nice and snug. On the reverse side, there is an expandable pouch which easily holds my hose as well as has room for my HP camera docking station and power cord (I'm going on vacation for 2 weeks! YAAY!)

All in all, PB did a nice job of designing the APAP, humidifier and bag to carry all the necessities in one place....and it's light enough to carry easily.

Hope this helps you decide. I'm really impressed with the 420E, but get the software!!! It's an invaluable accessory.

This therapy WORKS!

QUESTION FOR PB 420E USERS....

QUESTION FOR PB 420E USERS....

Re: QUESTION FOR PB 420E USERS....

One more thing on the 420E