Too mild to warrent attention?

[Peter C]

Looking for a bit of advice here.
I was put on Bisoprolol beta blocker for Ventricular Tachycardia and right away developed a few distressing side- effects, one of which was breathlessness, or feeling as if my lungs were no longer working automatically. The other was feeling like a drunk Zombie.
I was found to have developed Anaphylactic shock from the beta blocker so was taken off them nearly a year ago. However, my symptoms remain and are getting worst, no initial acknowledgement from the NHS so I had to do my own investigations though now they are admitting I have Autonomic Instability. A lung function test shows I have good lungs mechanically, but I dont think the autonomic nervous system is telling them what to do.

So, when awake in hospital, the machine behind me was constantly bleeping because it showed my blood oxygen to be 87%
So, due to the feeling of breathlessness, the nightmare where I dreamt I was suffocating because I had forgotten to breathe, the increasing feeling I am getting more drunk and out of balance, I bought my own recordable oximeter.

What I found was some times when I wore it, the average was around 90%, but sometimes it was 85%
I therefore showed my GP who arranged for a sleep apnea clinic appointment, that was a waste of time as when I wore there similar machine for a couple of nights, I got readings that matched my 90% nights, when I showed the doctor that some nights it reads lower, he dismissed it as being a "sweaty finger" even though you can see that when I wake up at the end, my blood oxygen spikes back up to normal, even with the same sweaty finger.

When the GP called me back and I told her how dismissive the specialist was, she said she would get a second opinion and I have subsequently received an invitation to make another appointment. I am a little reluctant though as I don't want to be dismissed twice as being anxious for no reason, and I dont want to waste the NHS money.
What do you guys think of these examples, is it worth worrying about the lower ones? would they be bad enough to cause other health problems? Or should I not bother with the sleep apmea clinic again and look at other reasons why I seem to be suffering from worsening brain fog?
As for the instrument I use, I have got it to read as high as 99% when I try.

[USMCVet]

Yes I definitely think those warrant getting checked out. You have a significant time under 88% oxygen saturation.
Definitely could be sleep apnea or lung issue.

[colomom]

The data you posted shows lower than normal oxygen saturations, if I were in your shoes I would push for a full sleep study. Anxiety does not cause low oxygen saturations... do not allow the doctors to dismiss your symptoms as being psychological.

As far as the autonomic concerns... Have you been referred to an autonomic specialist? Is the tachycardia positional?

[greatunclebill]

i would be more worried about the VT. Ventricular tachycardia may not cause symptoms in some people. However, it can be deadly. It is a major cause of sudden cardiac death. Ventricular tachycardia may not cause symptoms in some people. However, it can be deadly. It is a major cause of sudden cardiac death.

Can stress cause ventricular tachycardia?
Emotional stressors can lead to ventricular ectopic beats and ventricular tachycardia. Though disturbances of cardiac rhythm due to emotional stress are often transient, sometimes the consequences can be seriously damaging and even fatal

[musculus]

Peter,

Highly likely you have OSA..

85% is non-trivially low oxygen saturation. anything below 90% should raise alarm.

I would certainly see a skilled sleep doctor ASAP given the Ventricular Tachycardia situation.

[Peter C]

The data you posted shows lower than normal oxygen saturations, if I were in your shoes I would push for a full sleep study. Anxiety does not cause low oxygen saturations... do not allow the doctors to dismiss your symptoms as being psychological.

As far as the autonomic concerns... Have you been referred to an autonomic specialist? Is the tachycardia positional?

I finally got a cardiologist to listen to logic and he apologised and agreed I was right, so he referred me to an Autonomic Neurologist in London. The Autonomic blood pressure test saw my standing position after three minutes show I had Orthostatic hypotension, at least on the day. The Neurologist said I have Autonomic Instability and told me of a series of more indept tests I was to have, but I am still waiting for a follow up appointment.

The Ventricular Tachycardia has been "cured" by an ablation last April, but I still have many ectopic beats and a heart beat that is often above 100 for no good reason, before the beta blockers it was the slow beat of an ex racing cyclist. I will attach a recent ecg I took.
I do have mild mid LAD disease, yet cardiolgists claim I have a strong heart, yet I am not convinced the painful heartburn I now get isnt in fact something like Coronary artery spasm as it is accompanied by a change of my ecg, second pic shows my T waves towering over the normally higher R waves which I understand is a symptom of not enough blood getting to the heart.

My problem is to know what is the cause of my slightly low blood oxygen, is it early Heart failure?, is it an autonomic dyfunction?, is it anything to do with the specialty of sleep apnea?, especially as my oxygen can get quite low whilst I am still awake.

[Peter C]

i would be more worried about the VT. Ventricular tachycardia may not cause symptoms in some people. However, it can be deadly. It is a major cause of sudden cardiac death. Ventricular tachycardia may not cause symptoms in some people. However, it can be deadly. It is a major cause of sudden cardiac death.

Can stress cause ventricular tachycardia?
Emotional stressors can lead to ventricular ectopic beats and ventricular tachycardia. Though disturbances of cardiac rhythm due to emotional stress are often transient, sometimes the consequences can be seriously damaging and even fatal

My VT looked like the following, I certainly got symptoms, felt as if I was being strangled and somebody turning the lights off, its been cured last April by an ablation but its the Beta Blockers they gave me for it that made me permanently ill. The reason I have my own ECG is that the NHS had failed to detect anything for the previous two years and sent me home, until I showed them what turned into this.

[Peter C]

Thanks people, so I have booked an appointment, I had a choice of NHS venues, fortunately the nearest is also the earliest appointment, 31st May!
I will report back!

[TedVPAP]

Make sure your heart doctor is board certified as an electrophysiologist.
What machine are you using for the ECG. I use Kardia Mobile (AliveCor).

[colomom]

I finally got a cardiologist to listen to logic and he apologised and agreed I was right, so he referred me to an Autonomic Neurologist in London. The Autonomic blood pressure test saw my standing position after three minutes show I had Orthostatic hypotension, at least on the day. The Neurologist said I have Autonomic Instability and told me of a series of more indept tests I was to have, but I am still waiting for a follow up appointment.

The Ventricular Tachycardia has been "cured" by an ablation last April, but I still have many ectopic beats and a heart beat that is often above 100 for no good reason, before the beta blockers it was the slow beat of an ex racing cyclist. I will attach a recent ecg I took.
I do have mild mid LAD disease, yet cardiolgists claim I have a strong heart, yet I am not convinced the painful heartburn I now get isnt in fact something like Coronary artery spasm as it is accompanied by a change of my ecg, second pic shows my T waves towering over the normally higher R waves which I understand is a symptom of not enough blood getting to the heart.

My problem is to know what is the cause of my slightly low blood oxygen, is it early Heart failure?, is it an autonomic dyfunction?, is it anything to do with the specialty of sleep apnea?, especially as my oxygen can get quite low whilst I am still awake.

My teenage son was very recently diagnosed with autonomic dysfunction and he also has sleep apnea. We have been treating my son's sleep apnea since November, and it has helped him tremendously. In your initial post you asked about brain fog, in my sons case treating his sleep apnea has dramatically improved his cognitive function.

Your oximetry reports show that you were under 88 for 62 minutes on night 1 and under 88 for 126 minutes on night 2. In the US Medicare guidelines allow for supplemental oxygen to be prescribed if a person spends 5 minutes of an entire night under 88. Your low oxygen levels can cause strain on your heart, and in all likelihood are contributing significantly to your brain fog.
Try to get an in lab sleep study, that is your best bet to getting answers as to what is causing your your low oxygen saturation. In the sleep lab they will classify any apneas you have as either obstructive or central. Obstructive apneas as you would expect are caused by a physical obstruction of the airway. With central apneas your brain is not sending your body the signal to breath (can be caused by neurological problems, heart problems, or high altitude). In my son's case his sleep study showed nearly an even mix of obstructive and central apneas. The great thing about sleep apnea is that it is treatable.

Sounds like you have had a long difficult journey. I hope that you are able to find some answers that will help get you on the path to better health. Good luck!

[Peter C]

Make sure your heart doctor is board certified as an electrophysiologist.
What machine are you using for the ECG. I use Kardia Mobile (AliveCor).

I have a "Prince 180B", it is a dedicated ECG machine that even has leads, the tracings are very good and look just like the ones of mine I see in the ambulance, the interpretations are rubbish though and it takes a while to work out how to print the graphs.

[Peter C]

My teenage son was very recently diagnosed with autonomic dysfunction and he also has sleep apnea. We have been treating my son's sleep apnea since November, and it has helped him tremendously. In your initial post you asked about brain fog, in my sons case treating his sleep apnea has dramatically improved his cognitive function.



Sounds like you have had a long difficult journey. I hope that you are able to find some answers that will help get you on the path to better health. Good luck!

Thanks
Can I ask what your sons oxygen saturation was like previous to treatment please?, ie if it was similar to mine, I can look forward to similar level of cognitive improvement. At the moment I really feel I have brain damage.

[Julie]

Peter - you and her son (? age and med. history) quite possibly have no other similarities except for the AD, and assuming your cog. function will be similar just because your 02 sats are is not a good idea... there are so many other factors that could matter and you'll disappoint yourself if you narrow your outlook this way.

[colomom]

Thanks
Can I ask what your sons oxygen saturation was like previous to treatment please?, ie if it was similar to mine, I can look forward to similar level of cognitive improvement. At the moment I really feel I have brain damage.

My son's oxygen levels were similar to yours. He was under 88 for about an hour, his average saturation over the entire night was 90.2.
As Julie rightfully points out you and my son have some similarities in medical histories, but you are different people. I cannot tell you with certainty whether or not you have sleep apnea or if treating sleep apnea will remedy your cognitive impairment. I can tell you the brain is resilient and many people who have sleep apnea experience cognitive decline that improves dramatically with treatment of their sleep apnea.
Hold onto hope. I understand your concerns about permanent brain damage, but as I said before the brain is resilient. The wonderful thing about sleep apnea is that there is a highly effective treatment, and that treatment has very few downsides. With medications there is always a trade off. CPAP is simply pressurized air, it can be difficult to get used to but there are no negative side effects as there often are with medications.
You have a complex medical history, but if you do have sleep apnea treating it is an important piece of the puzzle.