OT - Statins and You

[DreamStalker]

organic (or better quality)

Why did you add the "or" phrase? You know that organic foods are no more nutritious than foods grown by traditional farming methods?

You might also want to look at the environmental impact. Soil health is better with traditional no-till methods as compared to organic farming.

Yield per acre is also higher with traditional methods. This means more forests must be cleared and more wetlands must be destroyed to produce the same about of food using organic methods as compared to traditional methods.

Someday, the organic scam will collapse under its own hubris.

Why? Because I am indeed aware that organic is not necessarily the best quality.

What the organic label does provide (at least in regulatory theory) over typical food from your local grocer is free of GMOs and big corporate agriculture toxic chemicals, drugs, hormones, and other additives. NOT necessarily better "nutrition". In other words .... "traditional" farming methods are basically "organic" farming methods. Unfortunately, many people confuse modern "corporate" methods as "traditional".

You might want to click on the permaculture link in my user signature area to learn more about "beyond organic" so that someday, some people will learn that there are methods far superior (or better quality) to even "traditional" (or organic) farming methods.

For now, unless you have access to traditional no-till or better quality permaculture food .... stick to organic food from your local grocer or farmer's market. Avoid the toxic chemicals, drugs, hormones, and GMOs.

[ChicagoGranny]

free of GMOs

Can you provide an example of a food that is harmful because it was developed using genetic engineering techniques?

[DreamStalker]

free of GMOs

Can you provide an example of a food that is harmful because it was developed using genetic engineering techniques?

Google is your friend ... when it's not spying on you.

Can you search ... "GMO corn study"?

C'mon granny! I knows you're smart enough to do your own research.

[palerider]

free of GMOs

Can you provide an example of a food that is harmful because it was developed using genetic engineering techniques?

how about a hazard of doing it 'the old fashioned way'?

http://boingboing.net/2013/03/25/the-ca ... otato.html

[ChicagoGranny]

how about a hazard of doing it 'the old fashioned way'?

http://boingboing.net/2013/03/25/the-ca ... otato.html

Yes, that is a good example of breeding plants by the centuries-old method resulting in a plant that is not healthy for human consumption. The old-fashioned methods of plant breeding are traditional breeding, chemical mutagenesis and nuclear radiation mutagenesis. All these are haphazard methods - you never know what the end result will be. Hundreds of genes are changed, and the result is often unsatisfactory.

On the other hand, genetic engineering changes only one or two genes. The outcome is easily predicted.

[ChicagoGranny]

free of GMOs

Can you provide an example of a food that is harmful because it was developed using genetic engineering techniques?

Google is your friend ... when it's not spying on you.

Can you search ... "GMO corn study"?

C'mon granny! I knows you're smart enough to do your own research.

You made the claim, it's up to you to provide the evidence. But, there is no genetically engineered food on the market that is less nutritious or less safe than its corresponding traditionally-bred food.

Can you search ... "GMO corn study"?

I am very well familiar with the Seralini study. It has been totally discredited, and it was retracted - https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... to-cancer/

Don't fall for junk science!

[DreamStalker]

free of GMOs

Can you provide an example of a food that is harmful because it was developed using genetic engineering techniques?

Google is your friend ... when it's not spying on you.

Can you search ... "GMO corn study"?

C'mon granny! I knows you're smart enough to do your own research.

You made the claim, it's up to you to provide the evidence. But, there is no genetically engineered food on the market that is less nutritious or less safe than its corresponding traditionally-bred food.

Can you search ... "GMO corn study"?

I am very well familiar with the Seralini study. It has been totally discredited, and it was retracted - https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... to-cancer/

Don't fall for junk science!

Well eat it up Granny! Eat it all up then! ... cuz I just knew you would.

In fact you can have all the GMO I ain't gonna eat just so YOU can have more of it.

You wanted evidence? You really didn't think I wuz going to waste my time trying to teach an old dog any new tricks did ya? LOL

[Janknitz]

So far there's no evidence that GMO's are inherently harmful on their own, and that's not at all what I am worried about.

What I AM worried about is the fact that most GMO's used in the US were developed to be resistant to herbicides and pesticides so they could use more of them in the production of agricultural products to supposedly increase yield (there is evidence that crop yield is not necessarily better in many cases, and then there's the rise in "superbugs" that are resistant to these herbicides and pesticides so they are using more and stronger ones as time goes on). So those herbicides and pesticides are in our food supply, in our soil, our water, and our air. You may disagree on whether or not these pesticides and herbicides are harmful or not--not unlike decades of denial that smoking caused lung and other cancers, among other things. I'm choosing to minimize my own use as a guinea pig.

We haven't studied things like what pesticides and herbicides do to the soil microbiomes that feed our own healthy gut flora. It may be that there isn't direct injury from pesticides and herbicides to humans, but the indirect harm to our soils may have profound effects on our health by having an effect on our own gut flora. We see significant rises in autoimmune disease and neurological impairments--is that related directly or indirectly to the increased use of pesticides and herbicides? Some studies suggest it is.

So while the jury is out, I'm not volunteering as a guinea pig. That's my reason for choosing organic food with minimal processing and packaging. Call me silly or stupid if you want, it will take decades to know who is right. And I don't really care if I'm wrong as I see no harm in eating as close to the way my grandparents ate--my paternal great grandmother lived to be 104 and she was independent and had all her faculties until the day she died.

[49er]

We see significant rises in autoimmune disease and neurological impairments--is that related directly or indirectly to the increased use of pesticides and herbicides? Some studies suggest it is.

That could also be due to adverse reactions to psych meds, fluoroquinolone antibiotics and other meds that don't get acknowledged in the medical community.

I think organic food tastes alot better than non-organic items. But I am not convinced the benefits are worth paying all that extra money.

Back to the topic - h-ll will freeze over before I ever take a statin.

49er

[Janknitz]

That could also be due to adverse reactions to psych meds, fluoroquinolone antibiotics and other meds that don't get acknowledged in the medical community.

There could be many causes but the studies I'm referring to looked at offspring of agricultural workers in the Salinas valley. Not people prone to taking psych meds or antibiotics, many don't have access to health care.

But we do agree--statins over my dead body.

[DreamStalker]

So far there's no evidence that GMO's are inherently harmful on their own, and that's not at all what I am worried about.

What I AM worried about is the fact that most GMO's used in the US were developed to be resistant to herbicides and pesticides so they could use more of them in the production of agricultural products to supposedly increase yield (there is evidence that crop yield is not necessarily better in many cases, and then there's the rise in "superbugs" that are resistant to these herbicides and pesticides so they are using more and stronger ones as time goes on). So those herbicides and pesticides are in our food supply, in our soil, our water, and our air. You may disagree on whether or not these pesticides and herbicides are harmful or not--not unlike decades of denial that smoking caused lung and other cancers, among other things. I'm choosing to minimize my own use as a guinea pig.

We haven't studied things like what pesticides and herbicides do to the soil microbiomes that feed our own healthy gut flora. It may be that there isn't direct injury from pesticides and herbicides to humans, but the indirect harm to our soils may have profound effects on our health by having an effect on our own gut flora. We see significant rises in autoimmune disease and neurological impairments--is that related directly or indirectly to the increased use of pesticides and herbicides? Some studies suggest it is.

So while the jury is out, I'm not volunteering as a guinea pig. That's my reason for choosing organic food with minimal processing and packaging. Call me silly or stupid if you want, it will take decades to know who is right. And I don't really care if I'm wrong as I see no harm in eating as close to the way my grandparents ate--my paternal great grandmother lived to be 104 and she was independent and had all her faculties until the day she died.

Unfortunately, science is not always able to quantify the long-term effects of man-made products (remember DDT? and then plenty of drugs too). There is a lot of corporate pressure to promote science that supports their products while suppressing science that does not. Government regulatory bodies are increasingly pressured, for both financial and political reasons, to bias their findings when compared to other scientific studies and also only look at the immediate short-term effects of these potentially dangerous products. The following are just examples:

New Study Shows Major Molecular Differences between GMO and Non-GMO Corn

Full story of the Dr Elaine Ingham controversy over Klebsiella p.

[Janknitz]

I haven't added to this thread in some time, but this one bears notice:

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/587563

Concern about the absence of evidence of benefit for many women increases given the known adverse effects of statins and their widespread use, possibly resulting in billions of wasted healthcare dollars. However, for some groups of reasonably healthy women, the concern may run deeper than the absence of benefit and wasted money. Some primary prevention clinical results raise the possibility of not only the absence of cardioprotection, but also of increased cardiovascular risk for some women.

[ChicagoGranny]

What I AM worried about is the fact that most GMO's used in the US were developed to be resistant to herbicides and pesticides so they could use more of them in the production of agricultural products

Are you aware that that the pesticides used on GMO crops are less toxic than the ones they replaced? Are you aware that no farmer wants to use more pesticides? Pesticides are very expensive, and the cost comes right out of the farmer's pocket. Farmers choose GMO crops for several reasons. One, is that the total application is less than the more toxic pesticides used on traditional crops. Glyphosate, for instance, is applied at the rate of 22 ounces per acre once per year, or in bad years, a second application may be needed. This is less than the equivalent of two cans of beer per acre.

Another reason farmers like GMO crops and glyphosate is it allows no-till farming. The soil is being saved and improved. I've stood at the edge of a field of young dent corn in a heavy downpour and watched clear water running off. With tilled farming, the runoff water is very cloudy and soil is being carried into our waterways.

pesticides and herbicides do to the soil microbiomes that feed our own healthy gut flora.

Actually, there are a lot of studies addressing this. No problems have been found. Most of the studies show improved soil microbiomes.

BTW, if you don't know that herbicides are a subset of pesticides, you are not qualified to make the judgments you are posting.

That's my reason for choosing organic food with minimal processing and packaging. Call me silly or stupid if you want

Maybe "misinformed" and "misled by Big Organic's marketing" are the correct words. You probably don't know that organic farmers use pesticides. There are over 400 pesticides that are approved for organic. Some of these are synthetic pesticides. Many of these are more toxic than the pesticides used on GMO crops. But, not to worry, the minute amounts on organic or GMO products are well below levels in the diet which cause damage to humans.

[Lucyhere]

There are over 400 pesticides that are approved for organic. Some of these are synthetic pesticides. Many of these are more toxic than the pesticides used on GMO crops. But, not to worry, the minute amounts on organic or GMO products are well below levels in the diet which cause damage to humans.

Yes. There are pesticides that are approved for organic growing, and they are indeed used. Now, my son and his wife don't want to believe this and will only eat 'organic' because no pesticides are used ( ), but that's the way with most anything; we believe what we choose to believe. They still wash their fruit with soap and water before eating which I always find amusing. I mean, if no pesticides are used...

[nicholasjh1]

Yes my father got horrible brain fog from them. Messing with your cholesterol is tricky as you stated... Cholesterol is actually part of the repair system for your cells. sometimes high cholesterol is related to cellular stress so lowering the cholesterol artificially is actually fighting against the repair mechanism of your body! Yikes. I would only ever use it for cholesterol over 220. thankfully with a decent diet, healthy fats, the good old CPAP, some good cardio my cholesterol is now below 180.

Edit: It's also worth mentioning that cardiac events in several experiments have been proven to be lower without statins, using only blood thinners. Yikes again!