Edema / Facial Swelling

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
ChasingSheep
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun May 11, 2014 2:53 pm

Edema / Facial Swelling

Post by ChasingSheep » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:47 am

Hi,

After posting a topic earlier about my situation, I've switched to straight CPAP at a pressure of 6. Now I'm not entirely sure when this begin to happen--I suppose it's more noticeable now, but my eyelids (top and bottom) have been feeling/looking swollen as of late. On top of that, I've also began to have eczema around my eye area, so it's been very dry and reddish as well. Eczema is something I've had all my life, but never around my eyes. I'm beginning wonder whether CPAP is causing my eczema by drying the areas around my eyes and also causing my swelling. My leak rates are generally pretty good, and I don't get leaks to my eyes often, although I'm sure it happens from time to time. So my other theory is that it's happening from the inside of the eyes. I've read quite a few topics regarding the connection between our nasal passage and our eyes, and it's true that I've been experiencing dry eyes when I wake up after using the CPAP. I am currently not on any meds, and my straps are about as loose as I can have them without leakage. I decided to forgo my CPAP last night and my swelling has come down a bit. At this point I'm seriously considering an oral appliance or surgery because I can't deal with this (mainly the swelling). So what gives? Is there a solution to this problem, short of quitting my CPAP?

Puffy eyes

Re: Edema / Facial Swelling

Post by Puffy eyes » Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:32 pm

Hello,
I have the exact same problem. I use my cpap machine every night with a pressure of 11. All the stats on the cpap machine look good. No major leaks or other issues. I feel like I have the mask on comfortably. In other words tight enough to seal but not too tight. I use a ResMed Swift FX nasal pillow mask. I've had eczema pretty much my whole life as well as sinus issues although my eczema is usually not that bad. My nose is always stuffed at night which seems to be alleviated by the humidification of the cpap machine. Everything sleep wise seems to be fine except that when I wake up my eyes feel tired, and the eyelids above and below are red and irritated.
It gets so bad that my eyelids are scaly and burn. People at work ask me who I got in a fight with, or why am I so tired? I'm at the point now where I want to stop using the cpap machine. I've never had eczema around my eyes before this. I didn't know what was causing it. At first I thought it was an allergy but because of my diet and exercise I haven't really had eczema on any other parts of the body for a while now. I've tried every lotion known to man. Now I use a natural lotion 3-5 times a day, and a low grade steroid that my doctor prescribed me specifically for the eyelids. Nothing worked.
Then I went overseas for 15 days and I left my cpap at home. My eyes cleared up completely in 3 days and didn't bother me the entire trip. I came home and started using my cpap machine again and within a few days it was back. That's when I realized it had to be the cpap machine.
There has to be something to this but my sleep doctor didn't seem to know what I was talking about when I told her about it.
I need to find something else because this is driving me crazy.

User avatar
Julie
Posts: 19898
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:58 pm

Re: Edema / Facial Swelling

Post by Julie » Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:13 pm

You're allergic... you may have to try Pad-a-Cheek liners between you and the mask, even though it may not touch your eye area directly, the effect could be transferring subdermally or something to there... or there's always Benadryl, but I don't know what it might do to Cpap's effect on sleeping. You might want to consider a different mask, but I'm not sure which would help (the fabric one might, though if it still uses silicone somewhere....

User avatar
Wulfman...
Posts: 6688
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:41 pm
Location: Nearest fishing spot

Re: Edema / Facial Swelling

Post by Wulfman... » Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:36 pm

Puffy eyes wrote:Hello,
I have the exact same problem. I use my cpap machine every night with a pressure of 11. All the stats on the cpap machine look good. No major leaks or other issues. I feel like I have the mask on comfortably. In other words tight enough to seal but not too tight. I use a ResMed Swift FX nasal pillow mask. I've had eczema pretty much my whole life as well as sinus issues although my eczema is usually not that bad. My nose is always stuffed at night which seems to be alleviated by the humidification of the cpap machine. Everything sleep wise seems to be fine except that when I wake up my eyes feel tired, and the eyelids above and below are red and irritated.
It gets so bad that my eyelids are scaly and burn. People at work ask me who I got in a fight with, or why am I so tired? I'm at the point now where I want to stop using the cpap machine. I've never had eczema around my eyes before this. I didn't know what was causing it. At first I thought it was an allergy but because of my diet and exercise I haven't really had eczema on any other parts of the body for a while now. I've tried every lotion known to man. Now I use a natural lotion 3-5 times a day, and a low grade steroid that my doctor prescribed me specifically for the eyelids. Nothing worked.
Then I went overseas for 15 days and I left my cpap at home. My eyes cleared up completely in 3 days and didn't bother me the entire trip. I came home and started using my cpap machine again and within a few days it was back. That's when I realized it had to be the cpap machine.
There has to be something to this but my sleep doctor didn't seem to know what I was talking about when I told her about it.
I need to find something else because this is driving me crazy.
How long have you been using your machine/equipment?
What humidifier setting are you using? Part of that sounds like you've got your HH setting WAY too high.

When you were gone, you were also out of the area where the allergens are that you may be allergic to.

Are you cleaning the filters in your machine? Do you use distilled water?

It's not all that unusual to have a little puffiness in the "bags" below your eyes early on in this therapy.
May be due to the pressure or humidification.


Den

.
(5) REMstar Autos w/C-Flex & (6) REMstar Pro 2 CPAPs w/C-Flex - Pressure Setting = 14 cm.
"Passover" Humidification - ResMed Ultra Mirage FF - Encore Pro w/Card Reader & MyEncore software - Chiroflow pillow
User since 05/14/05

User avatar
archangle
Posts: 9294
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:55 am

Re: Edema / Facial Swelling

Post by archangle » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:22 am

ChasingSheep wrote:Hi,

After posting a topic earlier about my situation, I've switched to straight CPAP at a pressure of 6. Now I'm not entirely sure when this begin to happen--I suppose it's more noticeable now, but my eyelids (top and bottom) have been feeling/looking swollen as of late. On top of that, I've also began to have eczema around my eye area, so it's been very dry and reddish as well. Eczema is something I've had all my life, but never around my eyes. I'm beginning wonder whether CPAP is causing my eczema by drying the areas around my eyes and also causing my swelling. My leak rates are generally pretty good, and I don't get leaks to my eyes often, although I'm sure it happens from time to time. So my other theory is that it's happening from the inside of the eyes. I've read quite a few topics regarding the connection between our nasal passage and our eyes, and it's true that I've been experiencing dry eyes when I wake up after using the CPAP. I am currently not on any meds, and my straps are about as loose as I can have them without leakage. I decided to forgo my CPAP last night and my swelling has come down a bit. At this point I'm seriously considering an oral appliance or surgery because I can't deal with this (mainly the swelling). So what gives? Is there a solution to this problem, short of quitting my CPAP?
If the leak is happening from the inside of the eyes, it sounds like you have a problem with the "nasolacrimal duct." Check the link and see if that's what you think is happening.

If you are having nasolacrimal duct problems there are a few solutions. A total face mask that covers your nose, mouth, and eyes will help because the pressure inside your nose and around your eyes is the same.

The Oracle oral mask goes in your mouth. If you can learn to use it without nose plugs or nose clamps, there is no pressure in your nose, and no air will come out of your nasolacrimal ducts. An oral mask is sometimes hard to get used to. It tends to dry your mouth and throat out, and the sensation of not breathing through your nose can be bothersome.

If you think you're having an allergic reaction, clean your mask really well. In theory, almost no one is allergic to silicone, but there might be some sort of manufacturing residue or something else on or soaked into the plastic. I'd suggest to take the mask apart and wash everything but the cloth/foam headgear in the dishwasher several times. I wash mine every other week in the dishwasher. Use the hottest longest cycle your dishwasher does, and use an extra rinse cycle. I use normal dishwashing powder. Note that ResMed does not recommend dishwashing masks, but I've done it for years now.

If you don't do that, clean it really well. Some people even put the silicone rubber mask parts in boiling water with baking soda and cook them for a while.

Be sure that there isn't some sort of soap residue, makeup, or lotion on your face when you mask up. Something that doesn't bother you on its own may irritate you if the mask holds it against your face. Try changing what you put on your face and what you use to clean your mask. You could put something like T-shirt material between your face and the mask straps.

Surgery has a low success rate, is painful, and has bad side effects. Google UPPP and look for the horror stories of apnea surgery victims. There are lots of chop happy surgeons with delusions of grandeur and visions of dollars dancing in their heads. They often claim "success" when the surgery reduces your apnea AHI, but doesn't cure it. People often find they need CPAP later even if the surgery works at first.

Dental devices have a low success rate. There is no easy way to tell if it's working without another sleep test, and then there's no long term monitoring. They can cause jaw problems like TMJ.

_________________
Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: Also SleepyHead, PRS1 Auto, Respironics Auto M series, Legacy Auto, and Legacy Plus
Please enter your equipment in your profile so we can help you.
Click here for information on the most common alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check for yourself.

Useful Links.

Puffy eyes

Re: Edema / Facial Swelling

Post by Puffy eyes » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:07 pm

Wulfman... wrote:
Puffy eyes wrote:Hello,
I have the exact same problem. I use my cpap machine every night with a pressure of 11. All the stats on the cpap machine look good. No major leaks or other issues. I feel like I have the mask on comfortably. In other words tight enough to seal but not too tight. I use a ResMed Swift FX nasal pillow mask. I've had eczema pretty much my whole life as well as sinus issues although my eczema is usually not that bad. My nose is always stuffed at night which seems to be alleviated by the humidification of the cpap machine. Everything sleep wise seems to be fine except that when I wake up my eyes feel tired, and the eyelids above and below are red and irritated.
It gets so bad that my eyelids are scaly and burn. People at work ask me who I got in a fight with, or why am I so tired? I'm at the point now where I want to stop using the cpap machine. I've never had eczema around my eyes before this. I didn't know what was causing it. At first I thought it was an allergy but because of my diet and exercise I haven't really had eczema on any other parts of the body for a while now. I've tried every lotion known to man. Now I use a natural lotion 3-5 times a day, and a low grade steroid that my doctor prescribed me specifically for the eyelids. Nothing worked.
Then I went overseas for 15 days and I left my cpap at home. My eyes cleared up completely in 3 days and didn't bother me the entire trip. I came home and started using my cpap machine again and within a few days it was back. That's when I realized it had to be the cpap machine.
There has to be something to this but my sleep doctor didn't seem to know what I was talking about when I told her about it.
I need to find something else because this is driving me crazy.
How long have you been using your machine/equipment?
What humidifier setting are you using? Part of that sounds like you've got your HH setting WAY too high.

When you were gone, you were also out of the area where the allergens are that you may be allergic to.

Are you cleaning the filters in your machine? Do you use distilled water?

It's not all that unusual to have a little puffiness in the "bags" below your eyes early on in this therapy.
May be due to the pressure or humidification.



Den

.
Thanks Den,
I've been using it for a year now and the eczema started almost immediately once I wore it on a regular basis (without pulling it off at night).
I usually change my humidification settings depending on how dry it is. That doesn't seem to make a difference with the eczema. Usually 2 or 3 is where it's at for most times of the year. I could mess with that.
My pressure settings are what the doctor prescribed me based on my sleep study. I could try taking it down and see if that helps at all.
I was in Iceland so the weather was very different (colder since it was July and averaged 55F). Since then I've also gone several days without the CPAP here, where I've lived for 2 years and it clears up. My sleep is terrible but my eyes clear up.
Also I've worn the CPAP in Michigan and North Carolina and it's no different.
I clean the filter about every couple of months. I wash the mask about every other day and I always use distilled water. I'm wondering if I should drop the pressure and see how it goes.

Also @ChasingSheep, not trying to hijack, just wanted to let you know that I have the same issue.

User avatar
Julie
Posts: 19898
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:58 pm

Re: Edema / Facial Swelling

Post by Julie » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:27 pm

Rather than dropping your pressure, which should have no bearing on your problem, talk to a dermatologist and see what they say, but be sure you aren't prescribed something that could interfere with your therapy.

User avatar
Wulfman...
Posts: 6688
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:41 pm
Location: Nearest fishing spot

Re: Edema / Facial Swelling

Post by Wulfman... » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:36 pm

Puffy eyes wrote:
Wulfman... wrote:
Puffy eyes wrote:Hello,
I have the exact same problem. I use my cpap machine every night with a pressure of 11. All the stats on the cpap machine look good. No major leaks or other issues. I feel like I have the mask on comfortably. In other words tight enough to seal but not too tight. I use a ResMed Swift FX nasal pillow mask. I've had eczema pretty much my whole life as well as sinus issues although my eczema is usually not that bad. My nose is always stuffed at night which seems to be alleviated by the humidification of the cpap machine. Everything sleep wise seems to be fine except that when I wake up my eyes feel tired, and the eyelids above and below are red and irritated.
It gets so bad that my eyelids are scaly and burn. People at work ask me who I got in a fight with, or why am I so tired? I'm at the point now where I want to stop using the cpap machine. I've never had eczema around my eyes before this. I didn't know what was causing it. At first I thought it was an allergy but because of my diet and exercise I haven't really had eczema on any other parts of the body for a while now. I've tried every lotion known to man. Now I use a natural lotion 3-5 times a day, and a low grade steroid that my doctor prescribed me specifically for the eyelids. Nothing worked.
Then I went overseas for 15 days and I left my cpap at home. My eyes cleared up completely in 3 days and didn't bother me the entire trip. I came home and started using my cpap machine again and within a few days it was back. That's when I realized it had to be the cpap machine.
There has to be something to this but my sleep doctor didn't seem to know what I was talking about when I told her about it.
I need to find something else because this is driving me crazy.
How long have you been using your machine/equipment?
What humidifier setting are you using? Part of that sounds like you've got your HH setting WAY too high.

When you were gone, you were also out of the area where the allergens are that you may be allergic to.

Are you cleaning the filters in your machine? Do you use distilled water?

It's not all that unusual to have a little puffiness in the "bags" below your eyes early on in this therapy.
May be due to the pressure or humidification.



Den

.
Thanks Den,
I've been using it for a year now and the eczema started almost immediately once I wore it on a regular basis (without pulling it off at night).
I usually change my humidification settings depending on how dry it is. That doesn't seem to make a difference with the eczema. Usually 2 or 3 is where it's at for most times of the year. I could mess with that.
My pressure settings are what the doctor prescribed me based on my sleep study. I could try taking it down and see if that helps at all.
I was in Iceland so the weather was very different (colder since it was July and averaged 55F). Since then I've also gone several days without the CPAP here, where I've lived for 2 years and it clears up. My sleep is terrible but my eyes clear up.
Also I've worn the CPAP in Michigan and North Carolina and it's no different.
I clean the filter about every couple of months. I wash the mask about every other day and I always use distilled water. I'm wondering if I should drop the pressure and see how it goes.

Also @ChasingSheep, not trying to hijack, just wanted to let you know that I have the same issue.
Regarding the eczema, I would suggest consulting a physician.

What do you use to clean wash your mask? Anything more than just a dishwashing soap (like Dawn) and water?
If the filters are the gray foam (reusable) ones, is there anything special you use to clean them? (I just rinse mine with hot tap water.....running it through the opposite way the air flows toward it......every two weeks)
Any chance it could be from any cleaning supplies you're using to clean you stuff? Or, anything near the air intake that could be entering the air flow?

As an alternative, you could discuss this situation with your doctor and equipment provider to see if a different machine could be tried.......either temporarily or permanently.


Den

.
(5) REMstar Autos w/C-Flex & (6) REMstar Pro 2 CPAPs w/C-Flex - Pressure Setting = 14 cm.
"Passover" Humidification - ResMed Ultra Mirage FF - Encore Pro w/Card Reader & MyEncore software - Chiroflow pillow
User since 05/14/05

Puffy eyes

Re: Edema / Facial Swelling

Post by Puffy eyes » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:40 pm

Julie wrote:Rather than dropping your pressure, which should have no bearing on your problem, talk to a dermatologist and see what they say, but be sure you aren't prescribed something that could interfere with your therapy.
Thanks Julie,
I've been to a dermatologist, and an allergist, I've tried numerous lotions and a light steroid. It doesn't help.
They just think of it as an outbreak of eczema, and in a location that isn't easily treatable.

Puffy eyes

Re: Edema / Facial Swelling

Post by Puffy eyes » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:52 pm

Wulfman... wrote:
Puffy eyes wrote:
Wulfman... wrote:
Puffy eyes wrote:Hello,
I have the exact same problem. I use my cpap machine every night with a pressure of 11. All the stats on the cpap machine look good. No major leaks or other issues. I feel like I have the mask on comfortably. In other words tight enough to seal but not too tight. I use a ResMed Swift FX nasal pillow mask. I've had eczema pretty much my whole life as well as sinus issues although my eczema is usually not that bad. My nose is always stuffed at night which seems to be alleviated by the humidification of the cpap machine. Everything sleep wise seems to be fine except that when I wake up my eyes feel tired, and the eyelids above and below are red and irritated.
It gets so bad that my eyelids are scaly and burn. People at work ask me who I got in a fight with, or why am I so tired? I'm at the point now where I want to stop using the cpap machine. I've never had eczema around my eyes before this. I didn't know what was causing it. At first I thought it was an allergy but because of my diet and exercise I haven't really had eczema on any other parts of the body for a while now. I've tried every lotion known to man. Now I use a natural lotion 3-5 times a day, and a low grade steroid that my doctor prescribed me specifically for the eyelids. Nothing worked.
Then I went overseas for 15 days and I left my cpap at home. My eyes cleared up completely in 3 days and didn't bother me the entire trip. I came home and started using my cpap machine again and within a few days it was back. That's when I realized it had to be the cpap machine.
There has to be something to this but my sleep doctor didn't seem to know what I was talking about when I told her about it.
I need to find something else because this is driving me crazy.
How long have you been using your machine/equipment?
What humidifier setting are you using? Part of that sounds like you've got your HH setting WAY too high.

When you were gone, you were also out of the area where the allergens are that you may be allergic to.

Are you cleaning the filters in your machine? Do you use distilled water?

It's not all that unusual to have a little puffiness in the "bags" below your eyes early on in this therapy.
May be due to the pressure or humidification.



Den

.
Thanks Den,
I've been using it for a year now and the eczema started almost immediately once I wore it on a regular basis (without pulling it off at night).
I usually change my humidification settings depending on how dry it is. That doesn't seem to make a difference with the eczema. Usually 2 or 3 is where it's at for most times of the year. I could mess with that.
My pressure settings are what the doctor prescribed me based on my sleep study. I could try taking it down and see if that helps at all.
I was in Iceland so the weather was very different (colder since it was July and averaged 55F). Since then I've also gone several days without the CPAP here, where I've lived for 2 years and it clears up. My sleep is terrible but my eyes clear up.
Also I've worn the CPAP in Michigan and North Carolina and it's no different.
I clean the filter about every couple of months. I wash the mask about every other day and I always use distilled water. I'm wondering if I should drop the pressure and see how it goes.

Also @ChasingSheep, not trying to hijack, just wanted to let you know that I have the same issue.
Regarding the eczema, I would suggest consulting a physician.

What do you use to clean wash your mask? Anything more than just a dishwashing soap (like Dawn) and water?
If the filters are the gray foam (reusable) ones, is there anything special you use to clean them? (I just rinse mine with hot tap water.....running it through the opposite way the air flows toward it......every two weeks)
Any chance it could be from any cleaning supplies you're using to clean you stuff? Or, anything near the air intake that could be entering the air flow?

As an alternative, you could discuss this situation with your doctor and equipment provider to see if a different machine could be tried.......either temporarily or permanently.


Den

.

Den,
I use water and a light amount of dish soap. The filters are the gray foam ones. It's only around my eyes that I have this issue, not anywhere else on my face so I assumed I wasn't allergic to the mask.
I think I'm definitely going to see if I can try a few different masks. I've had the same type for a year. Keep in mind that it just occurred to me that the CPAP could be the problem.
I also thought that it could be air from the vent getting into my eyes (bouncing off the pillow?) if I turn on my side but the eczema seems pretty uniform around both eyes.
I'll keep trying to sort it out, and if I come up with a solution I'll post it. I've found various other forums where people seem to be having the same issue.
Thanks

User avatar
Wulfman...
Posts: 6688
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:41 pm
Location: Nearest fishing spot

Re: Edema / Facial Swelling

Post by Wulfman... » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:52 pm

Have you checked out some of the websites like this one? (or other informational medical links)

http://nationaleczema.org/


Den

.
(5) REMstar Autos w/C-Flex & (6) REMstar Pro 2 CPAPs w/C-Flex - Pressure Setting = 14 cm.
"Passover" Humidification - ResMed Ultra Mirage FF - Encore Pro w/Card Reader & MyEncore software - Chiroflow pillow
User since 05/14/05

Puffy eyes

Re: Edema / Facial Swelling

Post by Puffy eyes » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:54 pm

Wulfman... wrote:Have you checked out some of the websites like this one? (or other informational medical links)




Den

.
Haha every eczema web site and forum known to man!

Puffy eyes

Re: Edema / Facial Swelling

Post by Puffy eyes » Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:03 pm

Puffy eyes wrote:
Wulfman... wrote:Have you checked out some of the websites like this one? (or other informational medical links)




Den

.
Haha every eczema web site and forum known to man!
That's a great site though. Ezcema is horrible and it affects so many people. There are plenty of people that have it worse than I do.
When I changed my diet a lot of my original issues with eczema went away or got a lot better. This seems to be something that I can't shake, It's very noticeable and it itches and burns. I can
see why people would rather not sleep then deal with this as crazy as that may sound.

User avatar
chunkyfrog
Posts: 34377
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Nebraska--I am sworn to keep the secret of this paradise.

Re: Edema / Facial Swelling

Post by chunkyfrog » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:05 pm

I would worry about the edema because so much serious stuff can be responsible.
See a doctor, not a skin doc, but an internist.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Airsense 10 Autoset for Her

Mikeandtina59

Re: Edema / Facial Swelling

Post by Mikeandtina59 » Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:00 pm

You might want to consider an OA. I was 100% compliant on my CPAP for one year but never felt any better -- the sleep study even showed very low apneas, so it was a mystery to me. I finally got a mouth device and immediately felt much better. I got a Narval, which was pricey. I do like that you can adjust it yourself with different length rods. Good luck!