I just don't know if I can do this

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
Agathorn
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I just don't know if I can do this

Post by Agathorn » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:47 am

I know its important, I know its very important. But I just don't know if I can do it.

Over a month into my trial and I still, STILL, can't get a good nights sleep. On a "good" night, I wake up a half dozen times, and the mask is only slightly annoying. I don't have very many "good" nights. Most are quite bad, where I literally can NOT fall asleep with the mask. I'll lie there for hours and hours and then finally just give up and take the mask off.

CPAP may help me sleep better once i'm asleep -- maybe, i'm still not sure -- but that doesn't matter much if I can't even fracking get to sleep in the first place

The masks - all of them that i've tried, are just too annoying. Either they are uncomfortable, or they leak when I lie on my side, of they make too much noise. I find it very hard to fall asleep even normally, CPAP is just making it impossible

library lady
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Re: I just don't know if I can do this

Post by library lady » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:54 am

Have you tried mask liners? They were a game changer for me; I would not have been able to keep up with this without them. No more leaks that wake me up, and they make me more comfortable. The leaks I do have before getting to sleep are much quieter, more like a little blip... not bothersome. Karen at Pad-A-Cheek is a forum member and has nice ones, also strap pads and anti-leak straps, go here: http://www.padacheek.com. There is another brand, RemZzzzs that you should be able to get from your DME, and they are also sold by our sponsors, cpap.com.

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Agathorn
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Re: I just don't know if I can do this

Post by Agathorn » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:57 am

Masks that i've tried:
AirFit P10 (Edited) - Noisy. I can hear my breathing in and out. Also in general it has seemed like I have a harder time breathing with all the nasal pillow masks.
AirFit N10 - Comfortable, but leaked very easily when I laid on my side. The magnet connections were nice, but not sturdy enough
Mirage FX - This is what i'm using now, and its the best of the worst. If I clamp it down ultra tight it USUALLY maintains a seal even on my side, though for some reason last night it wasn't. The huge problem with this mask is the venting that blows all over my arms and the pillow making lots of noise, and being annoying. I sometimes can manage to find a way to position myself JUST RIGHT to mitigate this, but its hit or miss.

I also tried two masks from Phillips Respironics, but I don't know which ones they were. I can't find them on the web. One was a Nasal Pillow which basically has the same problems as the Swift FX Nano, and then another one that was essentially the same as the Mirage FX. This was was actually very nice in that it had a vent filter and was very quiet, did not blow on the pillows. Unfortunately it also didn't fit. Once I clamped it down tight to prevent leaks on my side, my nose would push up against hard plastic and it would be very very uncomfortable.

EDIT: I had the wrong mask listed in my list. It was not the Swift FX Nano, it was the AirFit P10 Nasal Pillows.
Last edited by Agathorn on Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Agathorn
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Re: I just don't know if I can do this

Post by Agathorn » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:58 am

library lady wrote:Have you tried mask liners? They were a game changer for me; I would not have been able to keep up with this without them. No more leaks that wake me up, and they make me more comfortable. The leaks I do have before getting to sleep are much quieter, more like a little blip... not bothersome. Karen at Pad-A-Cheek is a forum member and has nice ones, also strap pads and anti-leak straps, go here: http://www.padacheek.com. There is another brand, RemZzzzs that you should be able to get from your DME, and they are also sold by our sponsors, cpap.com.
How do the liners help with leaks? I thought they were just for comfort and to prevent marks on your face.

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Sir NoddinOff
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Re: I just don't know if I can do this

Post by Sir NoddinOff » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:09 am

Have you talked to your sleep doctor and PCP about your sleep problems? There can be other physical conditions that make it difficult to fall asleep besides CPAP adaptation. Thyroid issues, adrenal gland issues, sinuses, pulmonary - even stuff like a barking dog next door. The list goes on and on. A physical and a few blood tests can rule out a multitude of background things that may be limiting your ability to get good sleep. In my experience Padacheek liners do a good job of mellowing out leaks, so instead of a mask fart you'll get a quiet and steady slow release of air... hopefully quieted down enough not to wake you up. For major leaks there's not much you can do except find the right combo of mask and procedures that work for you (clean face, facial hair trimming, etc)

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Last edited by Sir NoddinOff on Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:17 am, edited 3 times in total.
I like my ResMed AirFit F10 FFM - reasonably low leaks for my ASV therapy. I'm currently using a PR S1 AutoSV 960P Advanced. I also keep a ResMed S9 Adapt as backup. I use a heated Hibernite hose. Still rockin' with Win 7 by using GWX to stop Win 10.

Agathorn
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Re: I just don't know if I can do this

Post by Agathorn » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:14 am

Sir NoddinOff wrote:Have you talked to your sleep doctor and PCP about your sleep problems? There can be other physical conditions that make it difficult to fall asleep besides CPAP adaptation. Thyroid issues, adrenal gland issues, sinuses, pulmonary and on and on. A physical and a few blood tests can rule out any background things that may be limiting your ability to get good sleep.
Well my doctor is aware of my problems sleeping which is why I was referred to the sleep people, which resulted in a home test and then a machine for a trial. I do have thyroid issues, but they are under control and everything was verified before sending me to the CPAP people. As for the CPAP people, they are also aware of my problems and have been letting me try different masks trying to find one that works, but now i'm at the end of my trial

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BlackSpinner
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Re: I just don't know if I can do this

Post by BlackSpinner » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:33 am

For side sleeping - make sure your mask hangs over the edge of the pillow.
Liners as mentioned prevent leaks.
Make sure the exhaled air doesn't hit any of the bedding.
Get a sound machine to break up the sound of breathing.
Use a guided meditation cd to help you relax.

Spent a couple of hours watching TV or playing video games with all the equipment on to get your body/mind used to this thing without you thinking about it.

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Daydream Believer
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Re: I just don't know if I can do this

Post by Daydream Believer » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:33 am

Maybe you just need help forgetting about the mask as you fall asleep. I use an app on my phone that plays sounds or use meditatation to distract me. I have to focus outside of my body to relax. Hopefully you can find something that works for you.

Amy

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glarnold
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Re: I just don't know if I can do this

Post by glarnold » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:45 am

One thing you might want to try...

I noticed that you said you said you had to clamp down tight to get a seal

This sounds counter-intuitive, I know, but my experience, and lots of help from folks here, finally led me to fit the mask looser. Much looser. Then, when the air comes on, the silicon cushion billows out and makes a seal.

Can't hurt to try. And cheap to do.

JMHO

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JDS74
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Re: I just don't know if I can do this

Post by JDS74 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:48 am

Your are describing two different problems.
1. A sleep hygiene problem in which you lie in bed not being able to sleep. That trains your brain with the idea that it is OK to be in bed and not be going to sleep. The habit to be developed is one that conforms to "I''m in bed and so I'm going to sleep." A way to get there is to not do anything in bed but go to sleep, no reading, no TV, no distractions. Then, if in bed for more than about 20 minutes, get up and go to another room and do something quiet until you feel tired. Repeat as necessary.
No stimulants during the day. No caffeine, hot chocolate, spicy food, etc. Some of us are very sensitive to these foods and our sleep is disturbed by them. Perhaps keep a food diary to see if some foods show up on worse days.
Try to have a regular bed time and stick to it.

2. A mask fit problem in that you are either uncomfortable with the masks that you have tried or they don't fit very well and leak. Keep in trying different masks until you find one that is comfortable. Mask liners help with comfort and also with leaks. Depending on the mask, a leak can be an indicator of too much or too little head gear pressure. With an auto machine, it is possible that your machine pressure is lower when you start and increases later. This could lead to a good fit at bed time and leaks later. Try and get a good fit when the pressure is at max for your settings. I think with your machine there is a mask-fit setting that will help with that. I don't use a ResMed machine so I'm not completely sure about it.

Best wishes and hang in there, it can and usually does get better.

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Agathorn
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Re: I just don't know if I can do this

Post by Agathorn » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:49 am

glarnold wrote:One thing you might want to try...

I noticed that you said you said you had to clamp down tight to get a seal

This sounds counter-intuitive, I know, but my experience, and lots of help from folks here, finally led me to fit the mask looser. Much looser. Then, when the air comes on, the silicon cushion billows out and makes a seal.

Can't hurt to try. And cheap to do.

JMHO
Unfortunately I have tried that, but as soon as I lie down on the pillow on my side, the mask gets pushed and the seal broken.
For side sleeping - make sure your mask hangs over the edge of the pillow.
The problem with that is then I can't sleep. I normally sleep with a long body pillow, and I like to smoosh down into it. I've obviously had to back off on that, but I still like lying in the middle of the pillow. I bought a memory foam pillow to try sleeping on that on the edge but all that does is add a new problem because I don't find that way of sleeping to be comfortable. The problem is i'm fighting 30 years of habit here.

JCWarrior
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Re: I just don't know if I can do this

Post by JCWarrior » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:59 am

Agathorn,
I know you've probably heard this 100 times but it will get better if you continue to "try". I have only been on CPAP for 3 month's myself and I have had a lot of struggles, mainly due to the mask, etc triggering my sleep anxiety. I can say that I have noticed myself getting more used to it over the last month.

I use the Airfit P10 myself and I understand what you mean about your breathing sounding very loud. What I have found is that as I become relaxed and my breathing "normalizes" the volume goes way down. I think we have a tendancy to overbreath when getting used to CPAP. One peace of advice I received here that was helpful was "just breath". In other words, try to just breath normal.

I found it hard to breath with my ramp feature on. Now I just start right at full force (10cm) and I adjust to it within seconds.

Another thing that has helped me is self hypnosis audio. Sounds a little whacky, I know, but it helps so who cares. I think it really just helps me to relax and take my mind off CPAP. In other words, it helps me think (or not think) like I did before having this contraption hooked to my face.

I hope this helps!

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JDS74
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Re: I just don't know if I can do this

Post by JDS74 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:05 am

Agathorn wrote:The problem with that is then I can't sleep. I normally sleep with a long body pillow, and I like to smoosh down into it. I've obviously had to back off on that, but I still like lying in the middle of the pillow. I bought a memory foam pillow to try sleeping on that on the edge but all that does is add a new problem because I don't find that way of sleeping to be comfortable. The problem is i'm fighting 30 years of habit here.
That's the sleep hygiene part. You may end up having to get rid of the body pillow and relearning how to sleep.
That's going to be hard but may be necessary.

With sympathy and support.

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Agathorn
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Re: I just don't know if I can do this

Post by Agathorn » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:31 am

IS it really called Sleep Hygiene? Makes it sound like I forgot to bathe

JDS74
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Re: I just don't know if I can do this

Post by JDS74 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:28 am

Agathorn wrote:IS it really called Sleep Hygiene? Makes it sound like I forgot to bathe
Crazy as it sounds, it really is called "Sleep Hygiene."
It is all those things that need to be done to fall asleep effectively and to stay asleep.

Here is a link to the Mayo Clinic on the subject. There are others on the net.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-livin ... t-20048379

Here is another from Washington state:

http://depts.washington.edu/hcsats/PDF/ ... 20Tips.pdf

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Mask: Oracle HC452 Oral CPAP Mask
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: EverFlo Q 3.0 Liters O2 PR DSX900 ASV
Oracle 452 Lessons Learned Updated
DSX900 AutoSV with HC150 extra humidifier and Hibernite heated hose
Settings: EPAP Min-10.0, EPAP Max-17, PS Min-3, PS Max-10, Max Pressure-20, Rate-Auto, Biflex-1.
Sleepyhead and Encore Pro 2.21.