Doc told me most people aren't interested in data

JohnBFisher · Post by **JohnBFisher** » Fri May 09, 2014 11:26 am

If you otherwise like your doctor and DME then you can try to change their mind. For example, ask them if they would want an insulin dependant diabetic should test their blood glucose levels. If they say no, find another doctor/DME. If they say yes, then ask how that differs from sleep apnea. The point is that an actively involved patient trends to have better outcomes.

PartlyCloudy · Post by **PartlyCloudy** » Sat May 10, 2014 9:21 am

Wow, I leave for a day or two and look at my thread, lol.

I drive my husband nuts by not bothering to learn how to run all his (boring and complicated) TV settings. On the other hand, my health isn't at stake with that.

Quite a few years ago I had to see a neurologist for a chronic issue. I asked him something based on something I'd learned online. He chuckled and said "I hate the internet." Based on his other behavior he had the God Complex, but I suspect he was also used to patients just blindly following along. I'm sure that's easier from his perspective. Not right but easier.

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Sat May 10, 2014 10:14 am

I can't imagine why an educated person would hate the internet.
The internet is today's encyclopedia--only with "open" content!
We can find reliable information; but we have to be very careful about sources!
Considering that, a great deal of BS has been produced by people in white coats--
---print and digital!

archangle · Post by **archangle** » Sat May 10, 2014 7:34 pm

The sad thing is most DOCTORS aren't interested in data. That sould really count as malprictice, since it's data that's easily obtainable for them, and has a direct effect on the patient's treatment for a life threatening condition.

Maybe some smart lawyers will start suing doctors for malpractice for not looking at the data the machine collects. Most CP machines would have a years worth of detailed data of doctor neglect when a CPAP patient dies from possibly apnea related conditions.

SewTired · Post by **SewTired** » Wed May 27, 2015 6:47 am

archangle wrote:The sad thing is most DOCTORS aren't interested in data. That sould really count as malprictice, since it's data that's easily obtainable for them, and has a direct effect on the patient's treatment for a life threatening condition.

Maybe some smart lawyers will start suing doctors for malpractice for not looking at the data the machine collects. Most CP machines would have a years worth of detailed data of doctor neglect when a CPAP patient dies from possibly apnea related conditions.

You have to stop looking at it from an Us vs. Them. That's as bad as the God Complex. Just assume for a minute that with all the medical treatments, your doc cannot keep up with it all. If your doc isn't interested in helping you improve your health by looking at your data, he is either not very knowleagable about what that data says, or perhaps wants you to instead focus on other health issues which, to him, are more relavant. The cpap, to him, may simply be something that helps you so that you can now focus on weight loss or exercise. If you feel your doctor is ignoring the relavance of your data, find another doctor, but keep in mind that he may think it is not the most important thing with your particular care.

My doc is great. If I bring him data from my diabetes program, he looks it over and tells me what is helpful and what is not. I am not insulin dependent, so what he wants to know is perhaps different from someone on insulin. I'm sure he will enjoy the Sleepyhead results. Don't know about the sleep doc though.

jnk · Post by **jnk** » Wed May 27, 2015 7:17 am

Us vs. them may rarely be productive in a problem-solving negotiation, however I believe the underlying point from the dog in the tortilla is that it should always be malpractice when a doc prescribes something that could easily be verified as effective, but the doc, and the system, choose to be complicit in allowing the patient to receive a brick that is incapable of providing that useful life-saving data. If the doc goes to the trouble of prescribing CPAP, he should prescribe one that he can verify as effectively set up for that patient as far as leaks and sufficient pressure for events. That is because using CPAP ineffectively can be as dangerous, if not more dangerous, than not using life-saving CPAP at all. And if that isn't grounds for consideration of malpractice, what is?

It breaks the hearts of many longtime posters to this site that so many people seem to get handed the machine and then only get verified for compliance in the hours of use, when it isn't the regular use of CPAP that saves lives--it is the constant effective use of properly set up CPAP that does, as can easily be verified from the data provided by a full-data machine.

Yes, my heart goes out too to all the docs who don't have the time to learn what they are doing and why. Maybe their hearts are in the right place. But the purpose of medicine is to help patients, not cut docs and the present system slack for their lack of ability, lack of foresight, and lack of time. OSA is not exactly a complicated issue, medically speaking. And CPAP is not a complicated medical concept. If the medical system can't do the job of getting people what they need, perhaps it is time to find another system or approach that cuts the docs out of the loop and puts someone else more accountable in charge of helping people have the ability to breathe when they sleep.

IMO.

ChicagoGranny · Post by **ChicagoGranny** » Wed May 27, 2015 7:25 am

SewTired wrote:You have to stop ....

Did you stop for a year to compose that reply?

SewTired · Post by **SewTired** » Wed May 27, 2015 7:33 am

ChicagoGranny wrote:
SewTired wrote:You have to stop ....
Did you stop for a year to compose that reply?

I believe in being thoughtful. I have to think long these days! Actually, the thread was on this page and while I noticed the last post was in May, I missed the year.

ChicagoGranny · Post by **ChicagoGranny** » Wed May 27, 2015 7:49 am

SewTired wrote:I believe in being thoughtful.

A good practice!

I should try it more often.

jnk · Post by **jnk** » Wed May 27, 2015 9:06 am

ChicagoGranny wrote:
SewTired wrote:I believe in being thoughtful.
A good practice!

I should try it more often.

I tried it once.

It just slowed me down.

49er · Post by **49er** » Wed May 27, 2015 9:43 am

jnk wrote:
ChicagoGranny wrote:
SewTired wrote:I believe in being thoughtful.
A good practice!

I should try it more often.
I tried it once.

It just slowed me down.

JNK,

I am so glad you are posting again. I love your sense of humor.

49er

jnk · Post by **jnk** » Wed May 27, 2015 9:57 am

49er wrote: . . . glad you are posting again. . . .

Thanks, 49er.

Glad to see you are still posting and being so helpful to others based on your experiences and insights.

novatom · Post by **novatom** » Wed May 27, 2015 11:33 am

PartlyCloudy wrote:Wow, I leave for a day or two and look at my thread, lol.

I drive my husband nuts by not bothering to learn how to run all his (boring and complicated) TV settings. On the other hand, my health isn't at stake with that.

Quite a few years ago I had to see a neurologist for a chronic issue. I asked him something based on something I'd learned online. He chuckled and said "I hate the internet." Based on his other behavior he had the God Complex, but I suspect he was also used to patients just blindly following along. I'm sure that's easier from his perspective. Not right but easier.

My doctor is kinda the same way, he said that 99% of the stuff I read on Internet forums regarding CPAP is probably incorrect. I just ignored the comment. It's kind of surprising though, because I live in Northern Virginia, which is a high tech hotbed, so there are a higher number of high-tech-inclined folks who live in this area.

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Wed May 27, 2015 12:03 pm

jnk wrote:Us vs. them may rarely be productive in a problem-solving negotiation, however I believe the underlying point from the dog in the tortilla is that it should always be malpractice when a doc prescribes something that could easily be verified as effective, but the doc, and the system, choose to be complicit in allowing the patient to receive a brick that is incapable of providing that useful life-saving data. If the doc goes to the trouble of prescribing CPAP, he should prescribe one that he can verify as effectively set up for that patient as far as leaks and sufficient pressure for events. That is because using CPAP ineffectively can be as dangerous, if not more dangerous, than not using life-saving CPAP at all. And if that isn't grounds for consideration of malpractice, what is?

It breaks the hearts of many longtime posters to this site that so many people seem to get handed the machine and then only get verified for compliance in the hours of use, when it isn't the regular use of CPAP that saves lives--it is the constant effective use of properly set up CPAP that does, as can easily be verified from the data provided by a full-data machine.

Yes, my heart goes out too to all the docs who don't have the time to learn what they are doing and why. Maybe their hearts are in the right place. But the purpose of medicine is to help patients, not cut docs and the present system slack for their lack of ability, lack of foresight, and lack of time. OSA is not exactly a complicated issue, medically speaking. And CPAP is not a complicated medical concept. If the medical system can't do the job of getting people what they need, perhaps it is time to find another system or approach that cuts the docs out of the loop and puts someone else more accountable in charge of helping people have the ability to breathe when they sleep.

IMO.

Well said, JNK, I can only agree and repeat. This is what REALLY matters.
I would agree that the system is tragically broken in favor of the bottom line,
VERSUS THE BENEFIT OF THE PATIENT.
More people need to declare:----"I've had enough; and I won't take it any more!"

Chevie · Post by **Chevie** » Wed May 27, 2015 12:26 pm

chunkyfrog wrote: If the medical system can't do the job of getting people what they need, perhaps it is time to find another system or approach that cuts the docs out of the loop and puts someone else more accountable in charge of helping people have the ability to breathe when they sleep.

IMO.

Well said, JNK, I can only agree and repeat. This is what REALLY matters.
I would agree that the system is tragically broken in favor of the bottom line,
VERSUS THE BENEFIT OF THE PATIENT.

Said like a typical anti-capitalist liberal - all squishy emotions but no workable solutions.

Meanwhile the capitalist (Johnny Goodman) quietly provides a tool that has helped tens of thousands.

" tragically broken in favor of the bottom line" - Oh spare me the useless hyperbole.

Doc told me most people aren't interested in data

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