Battery power packs for camping

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CapnLoki
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Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by CapnLoki » Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:03 am

Guest wrote:
CapnLoki wrote: There are several different cables for Respironics - you have to tell us the model. I like the ones using a "cigarette lighter" plug. The BatteryTender comes with most of the cables, but I think you need a "cigarette socket" as I mention.
She has a Respironics REMstar pro m series.

So if I am understanding this correctly she needs...
*A Battery - UPG 85980/D5722 Sealed Lead Acid Battery (12V; 35 AH; UB12350)
*A Battery charger - battery tender which comes with battery tender ring terminals(to connect charger to battery)
*A DC 12-Volt Power Cord for Respironics, with cigarette lighter plug (to connect cpap to ...)

So she would also need a ring terminal to cigarette lighter socket to connect the battery to the cpap power cord cigarette lighter plug? On the cpap site they have a cigarette lighter connecter with alligator clips. Would that be ok or not efficient enough?

Thanks for all your help
The alligator clips would work, but the clips are prone to falling off and causing mischief. Its much better to use a "cigarette lighter" cord - I think this one fits your machine:
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/respir ... -cord.html
and using this on the battery side:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0041CDPQO

With this setup the battery can also be used to charge cell phones, etc.

Once you properly connect the color coded ring connectors to the battery, the charger and cigarette socket will always plug in the right way. I use a cheap 5-way splitter so I can leave the charger on full time, in essence making it an Uninterruptible Power Supply with extra 12V outlets.

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Additional Comments: Pressure 9-20, average ~9.5; often use battery power while off-grid
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MongooseALaMode

Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by MongooseALaMode » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:27 pm

CapnLoki wrote:
The alligator clips would work, but the clips are prone to falling off and causing mischief. Its much better to use a "cigarette lighter" cord - I think this one fits your machine:
-link-
and using this on the battery side:
-link-

With this setup the battery can also be used to charge cell phones, etc.

Once you properly connect the color coded ring connectors to the battery, the charger and cigarette socket will always plug in the right way. I use a cheap 5-way splitter so I can leave the charger on full time, in essence making it an Uninterruptible Power Supply with extra 12V outlets.
I think I figured it out. I was a little confused about how the battery hooks to the cpap until I realized the other end cigarette adapter socket plugs into the identical looking one with the ring terminals. For a while I was thinking the tender would have to be linked in at all times... Thank you for all your help and patience.

I have one more question. Would a battery tender jr (which is .75A) work with the battery I mentioned or would I need something bigger like a 1.25A. Does it make any difference besides taking longer to charge?

Thanks again!

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CapnLoki
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Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by CapnLoki » Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:52 am

MongooseALaMode wrote: I think I figured it out. I was a little confused about how the battery hooks to the cpap until I realized the other end cigarette adapter socket plugs into the identical looking one with the ring terminals. For a while I was thinking the tender would have to be linked in at all times... Thank you for all your help and patience.

I have one more question. Would a battery tender jr (which is .75A) work with the battery I mentioned or would I need something bigger like a 1.25A. Does it make any difference besides taking longer to charge?

Thanks again!
If you use the 1-to-5 splitter you can hook up the charger full time and use the cigarette socket (or 2 or 3 etc). Without it you unplug the charger and plug in the socket. Although it looks like the plug could go backwards, once its setup it always works right.

The small charger can only put out about 18 Amp-hours a day so if you use humidity it would not be able to recharge during a 16 day. In other words, as a storm backup, it might not work for two nights in a row. It also would have trouble charging a large battery in any reasonable time frame. On the other hand, the BatteryTender line is designed for long term trickle charging, so you don't have to worry about leaving it on long term. So you can save $25 with the small one, but there will be limitations.

One other point: the wear on the battery goes way up as you discharge deeper. At 50% discharge, a good deep cycle battery should provide hundreds of cycles. At 80%, it is might be down to 100 cycles or less, still probably more than you''ll use in a few years. But it you take it much lower, the life time gets quite limited. You should think of a 35 Amp-hour battery as only providing perhaps 24 Amp-hours.

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Mask: Quattro™ Air Full Face Mask with Headgear
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Hark, how hard he fetches breath . . .  Act II, Scene IV, King Henry IV Part I, William Shakespeare
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xjoedirt55x

Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by xjoedirt55x » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:48 pm

Hey all,

This is my first post here, and I figured I would continue an ongoing thread, rather than start a new one, especially since this is a very common topic. That being said, I am sure that my questions have been answered, unfortunately I do not have the patience to search for hours on end to find the info I need. That being said, any help is greatly appreciated.

My situation:

I am going camping a few times in the near future and need some sort of power supply for my machine. I am not going anywhere remote for days on end or anything, but more or less for a night at a time. I have a spare lawnmower/motorcycle style battery that is near new, and plenty of electrical connectors and wiring laying around the shop. I can just throw the battery on the charger when I get back in town, so recharging is not an issue. I see manufacturers are making adapter kits etc. but would rather build one to better suit my needs. I also plan on running my machine and humidifier just as I would at home.

I would like to take the battery, directly wire from the battery to the barrel plug for the machine. I will make ring connectors or something to establish a good connection at the battery. From there, I would like to put an in-line fuse just as a safeguard to protect my machine. My power supply says at 12v dc, the amp rating is 5.0. What amp fuse would you recommend using? The next question is, should I worry about a voltage regulator or anything as another safeguard, or a 12v battery will be just fine? I would imagine that 22ga wire should suffice with no more than a 15' run of wire.

Thank you for your input.

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CapnLoki
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Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by CapnLoki » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:49 am

xjoedirt55x wrote:...
I am going camping a few times in the near future and need some sort of power supply for my machine. I am not going anywhere remote for days on end or anything, but more or less for a night at a time. I have a spare lawnmower/motorcycle style battery that is near new, and plenty of electrical connectors and wiring laying around the shop. I can just throw the battery on the charger when I get back in town, so recharging is not an issue. I see manufacturers are making adapter kits etc. but would rather build one to better suit my needs. I also plan on running my machine and humidifier just as I would at home.

I would like to take the battery, directly wire from the battery to the barrel plug for the machine. I will make ring connectors or something to establish a good connection at the battery. From there, I would like to put an in-line fuse just as a safeguard to protect my machine. My power supply says at 12v dc, the amp rating is 5.0. What amp fuse would you recommend using? The next question is, should I worry about a voltage regulator or anything as another safeguard, or a 12v battery will be just fine? I would imagine that 22ga wire should suffice with no more than a 15' run of wire.
First, it would help greatly if you mentioned the model (or at least the make) of your pump, and the pressure used, especially if it is high. Also, many people find the humidity is not needed when camping if the humidity is high. Often the dew point stays constant while the temp drops at night, so the relative humidity shoots up to 90%. This might not be true in the high desert, but I never bother to bring the humidifier when travelling. This is significant because the humidifier can use 80% of the power, or even more.

The battery you have may be sufficient - but its a tossup. If its an old style flooded starting battery, it won't handle repeated cycles and could easily fail in a dozen or so outings. Many of the newer small batteries are AGM, and they may be rated as "deep cycle" or "dual purpose" which can handle repeated deep drains. The next problem is the these batteries are usually in the 4 to 8 Amp-hour range, which is marginal for even one night without humidity. My pump, a Respironics 560 is very efficient and uses 4 Amp-hours a night at a moderate setting of "9" with no humidity or heated hose. Since you don't want to discharge to far - going below 25% limits the lifetime severely - you would need at least 6 AH to get by.

If you need humidity, you'll want a battery in the 35 Amp-hour range, such as a U1 size (weighs 25 pounds) used in scooters. (Even that might not be enoughi f your settings are high!) As a rough rule of thumb, each Amp-hour weighs about .75 pounds, so if your battery weighs under 10 pounds, it won't make it through the night.

As for the connection, if its a Respironics pump a cable for it is under $25 and well worth it. Its heavy zip cord (12 or 14 gauge?) with two chokes and a fuse (8 amp?) in the tip. If you go without humidity the average draw will drop probably below an Amp but the startup draw (and the pump "starts" on every breath) is still up around 2-3 amps so don't go too small on the fuse or wire. 22 gauge wire carrying 5 amps for 15 feet will have a 20% voltage drop so you should increase that, especially if you use humidity. 16 gauge would have a 5% drop.

_________________
Mask: Quattro™ Air Full Face Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: PR System One 60 Series Heated Tube Humidifier with Heated Tube
Additional Comments: Pressure 9-20, average ~9.5; often use battery power while off-grid
Hark, how hard he fetches breath . . .  Act II, Scene IV, King Henry IV Part I, William Shakespeare
Choosing a Battery thread: http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1140 ... ttery.html

Bubba in NC

Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by Bubba in NC » Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:29 am

Part of a work in progress…
I’ve got an upcoming four day music festival that will put me sleeping in a campground without electricity for at least three nights. I’ve been using the Airsense 10 for a couple of months with great success and don’t want to go without it. I’ve gotten the following: the ResMed DC converter for the Airsense 10 ($85), a Duracell Marine Deep Cycle battery from Sams Club ($120 including core charge of $18) and a 3 amp Battery Tender form Costco ($30). Total damage so far of $235. More than I wanted to spend but this will also serve as a backup at home during power outages also and a cheaper solution than buying multiple batteries for the ResMed RPS II which people report as powering one night’s sleep without the humidifier running.
I topped off the charge on the battery and hooked it up to test it. It lasted about little over 22 hours over three nights. This was at my normal settings of 10 lbs pressure, 86% humidity and automated settings.
Per ResMed, the unit draws about 3.77 watts per hour at these settings, so the math looks pretty close.

The Duracell is rated at 105 amp hours at 20 amps, so I think maybe the converter cuts it off before the battery fully drains.
I plan to try it at home some more before the festival with the humidifier turned off which drops the power usage by two thirds.
The converter does what it’s supposed to and I was leery of using an off the shelf inverter which might damage the machine.
Biggest downside of what I have so far is the weight.. over sixty pounds of battery. This is not a backpacking solution. I may end up buying a lighter weight solution in the future is the need arises.

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Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by amenite » Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:59 pm

Bubba in NC wrote:...Per ResMed, the unit draws about 3.77 watts per hour at these settings, so the math looks pretty close....
I think your math (or your units) are off...that machine would draw more like 50W (closer to 3.77 Amp).
Bubba in NC wrote:...Biggest downside of what I have so far is the weight.. over sixty pounds of battery. This is not a backpacking solution. I may end up buying a lighter weight solution in the future is the need arises.
I'm going in the opposite direction. I can go without heat & humidifer for 3-5 nights, especially if it means I can go with a small fraction of the 50-60 pounds a group 35 sized AGM battery would weigh. If I get any more AGM batteries for this application they'll probably be U1 size so I can easily lift one by one if needed without wrecking my back. I'm up to about 50 watts of solar panels for charging, one sunny summer day should be more than enough to top off.

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CapnLoki
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Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by CapnLoki » Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:06 pm

Bubba in NC wrote:Part of a work in progress…
I’ve got an upcoming four day music festival that will put me sleeping in a campground without electricity for at least three nights. I’ve been using the Airsense 10 for a couple of months with great success and don’t want to go without it. I’ve gotten the following: the ResMed DC converter for the Airsense 10 ($85), a Duracell Marine Deep Cycle battery from Sams Club ($120 including core charge of $18) and a 3 amp Battery Tender form Costco ($30). Total damage so far of $235. More than I wanted to spend but this will also serve as a backup at home during power outages also and a cheaper solution than buying multiple batteries for the ResMed RPS II which people report as powering one night’s sleep without the humidifier running.
I topped off the charge on the battery and hooked it up to test it. It lasted about little over 22 hours over three nights. This was at my normal settings of 10 lbs pressure, 86% humidity and automated settings.
Per ResMed, the unit draws about 3.77 watts per hour at these settings, so the math looks pretty close.

The Duracell is rated at 105 amp hours at 20 amps, so I think maybe the converter cuts it off before the battery fully drains.
I plan to try it at home some more before the festival with the humidifier turned off which drops the power usage by two thirds.
The converter does what it’s supposed to and I was leery of using an off the shelf inverter which might damage the machine.
Biggest downside of what I have so far is the weight.. over sixty pounds of battery. This is not a backpacking solution. I may end up buying a lighter weight solution in the future is the need arises.
I'm not familiar with the ResMed humidification, but the equivalent Respironics can use 3 to 4 Amps at high settings. However, it senses the ambient humidity, so outdoors in a humid environment it could be a lot less. On my boat (admittedly usually high humidity) I don't bother to bring the humidifier at all, and I often leave it behind when I travel to humid places. This keeps the draw more like 0.5 Amps.

At the high rate, its not surprising that the battery was drained in 3 nights,however, it might use a lot less outdoors. If you can go with out humidity, the draw might be under 5 to 10 Amp-hours per night, so that a smaller battery, such as a U1 (35 AH, 24 lbs, $65) would cover between 2 to 4 nights. If this were a Respironics, I would say it might go up to week.

BTW, although the BatteryTender is a high quality charger, but it is small it will take several days to fully charge a larger battery.

_________________
Mask: Quattro™ Air Full Face Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: PR System One 60 Series Heated Tube Humidifier with Heated Tube
Additional Comments: Pressure 9-20, average ~9.5; often use battery power while off-grid
Hark, how hard he fetches breath . . .  Act II, Scene IV, King Henry IV Part I, William Shakespeare
Choosing a Battery thread: http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1140 ... ttery.html

Bubba in NC

Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by Bubba in NC » Thu May 04, 2017 6:56 am

Used the setup I described above for the second year at the music festival. This year I didn't use humidification or heated tube. When I got back the 3 amp battery tender recharged the battery in less than 15 hours so power usage was way down. I'd like to find a lighter three night solution. The Poweadd unit discussed above is no longer available. Anyone know of an off the shelf solution for a 24 volt Resmed? I already have the Resmed 12 to 24 converter if that helps.

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CapnLoki
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Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by CapnLoki » Thu May 04, 2017 7:45 am

Bubba in NC wrote:Used the setup I described above for the second year at the music festival. This year I didn't use humidification or heated tube. When I got back the 3 amp battery tender recharged the battery in less than 15 hours so power usage was way down. I'd like to find a lighter three night solution. The Poweadd unit discussed above is no longer available. Anyone know of an off the shelf solution for a 24 volt Resmed? I already have the Resmed 12 to 24 converter if that helps.
Yes, as has been mentioned several times in this thread, a 35 Amp-hour AGM which weighs 24 pounds and costs about $65 will cover you for three nights without humidity. The link in my signature is to a thread that discusses this in detail and includes links to a variety of AGM batteries of different sizes.

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Additional Comments: Pressure 9-20, average ~9.5; often use battery power while off-grid
Hark, how hard he fetches breath . . .  Act II, Scene IV, King Henry IV Part I, William Shakespeare
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Bubba in NC
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Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by Bubba in NC » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:28 am

Any opinions on this?

https://www.amazon.com/42000mAh-Portabl ... moso+42000

Combined with my ResMed DC converter cigarette lighter adapter, it looks like a good solution for several days use for my ResMed Autosense 10. $80 and under three pounds.

ResMed says the Autosense 10 pulls .93 amps at pressure of 10 without the humidifier.

https://www.resmed.com/us/dam/documents ... lo_eng.pdf

42000 mah, less 30% fudge factor would be 29400 mah. .93 amps would equal 930 mah

29400/930 = 31.6 hours of use.

Does this math look right? Thoughts?
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CapnLoki
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Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by CapnLoki » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:26 pm

Bubba in NC wrote:Any opinions on this?

https://www.amazon.com/42000mAh-Portabl ... moso+42000

Combined with my ResMed DC converter cigarette lighter adapter, it looks like a good solution for several days use for my ResMed Autosense 10. $80 and under three pounds.

ResMed says the Autosense 10 pulls .93 amps at pressure of 10 without the humidifier.

https://www.resmed.com/us/dam/documents ... lo_eng.pdf

42000 mah, less 30% fudge factor would be 29400 mah. .93 amps would equal 930 mah

29400/930 = 31.6 hours of use.

Does this math look right? Thoughts?
There's a problem with the math. The rating of "42000mAh" is not measured at 12 Volts, which is the traditional standard. In our new world of Lithium cells this is actually measured at 3.6 or 3.7 Volts. The proper way to compare is to convert to Watt-hours as in: 42000 mAh X 3.7 volt => 155 Watt-hours, which would compare to about 13 Amp-hours at 12 volts. So this would probably not work for 2 nights.

I'm actually a bit surprised the load is that high - I thought the S9 was much less, and certainly the Respironics 560 auto is more like 0.5 amps. Also, the limit for airline travel is 100 watt-hours, so this exceeds that by a fair amount.

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Additional Comments: Pressure 9-20, average ~9.5; often use battery power while off-grid
Hark, how hard he fetches breath . . .  Act II, Scene IV, King Henry IV Part I, William Shakespeare
Choosing a Battery thread: http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1140 ... ttery.html

HoseCrusher
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Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by HoseCrusher » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:44 pm

Keep in mind that in order to get to around 12 volts you need to use 3 of those cells.

Now you have a battery pack of 3 cells with a nominal voltage of 3.7 * 3 = 11.1 volts and a capacity of 42 Ah.

How does that compare to a 12 volt lead acid battery?

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Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by Goofproof » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:37 pm

HoseCrusher wrote:Keep in mind that in order to get to around 12 volts you need to use 3 of those cells.

Now you have a battery pack of 3 cells with a nominal voltage of 3.7 * 3 = 11.1 volts and a capacity of 42 Ah.

How does that compare to a 12 volt lead acid battery?
In reality Lead Acid batteries are 2.1 Volts making 6 in series 12.6 Volts. Charging voltage for the 12.6 volt battery range is 12.6 to 14.4 volts, 13.0 to 13.8 being best on the battery. Jim
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Bubba in NC
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Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by Bubba in NC » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:15 am

Thanks for the replies. They don't make this power stuff as simple as it should be..
I think I'll keep lugging my heavy deep cycle marine battery around as long as I'm physically able and replace it with the AGM U1 recommended above when it croaks.

Actually my more immediate need is for a one night solution for a flight overseas. I've got sticker shock from the BPS and Medistrom batteries and moreso from the ResMed solution. I'm scouring ebay and craigslist, but would welcome suggestions. I'm currently hoping to catch an agreeable flight crew who will let me plug into the onboard plugs, despite it being contrary to Delta/ Air France published policy. Going forward, I guess I'll just avoid redeye flights.
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