Battery power packs for camping

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
game padre
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:07 am

Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by game padre » Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:45 pm

Guest wrote:
game padre wrote: I'm just using the cable provided in the PowerAdd 32000 -- do I need a different cable?
Not having seen the cable provided with the PowerAdd 32000 I would ask is it heavy enuff to carry the start up current which I think is 5A? Also have the batteries been charged for at least 1-2 days?
I figured it out, and started a different thread:
viewtopic/t100875/Battery-Research-for- ... AFlex.html

Warf
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:58 am
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by Warf » Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:05 pm

I bought a PowerAdd 32000, and it comes with all the connections to hook up to my Philips System One machine.
Charged it, switched to 12V, plugged it in and the CPAP powers on, as soon as the fan turns on the CPAP shuts off.
I turned off the heated tube and humidifier but same thing.

So I ended up purchasing a Respironics 14.4 AH portable battery pack. twice the cost of the Poweradd.
Gets me 2 nights sleep while camping if I turn off the heated tube and humidifier, 1 night with them on.
It's about 12 lbs heavier than the Poweradd.

_________________
MachineMask

eleong2
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:44 pm
Location: Southern CA

Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by eleong2 » Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:17 pm

I thought about buying the Respironics power pack, but it's kind of pricey. Figured I'd make my own, so I bought a battery off of EBay; Max Life ML22-12. 22AH 12V SLA battery and found a camera bag that fits perfectly from Amazon. The case is a Case Logic TBC409 and combined it looks like the Respironics pack, but packs more juice at 22AH compared to 14 AH. For both the battery and case cost me less than $70. As expected since this is an AGM SLA battery it's heavy,about 13 ibs.
I have tested it with my Respironics System One (460) with the humidifier turned off and got two nights, 9 hrs each, with no problem, and with a voltmeter the battery read 12.5 V after the two nights. Probably could get another evening easily. I figure if I limit it to three nights the battery would not be overly discharged. I also purchased a smart charger for this setup a CTEK MUS 4.3 from Amazon, so all together it cost me a little over $100. I also purchased a couple of HME waterless humidifiers in case I need it if it gets too dry for my sinuses when on battery power, those cost about $6 each. Now I am ready for camping!

My test conditions:
Respironics System One CPAP 460 with heated tube, humidifier turned off in pass through. Pressure setting 12 cm H2O
CFlex 1.

Ed

_________________
Mask: Mirage Activa™ LT Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Travel CPAP machine - Transcend EZEX

eleong2
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:44 pm
Location: Southern CA

Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by eleong2 » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:44 pm

Warf wrote:I bought a PowerAdd 32000, and it comes with all the connections to hook up to my Philips System One machine.
Charged it, switched to 12V, plugged it in and the CPAP powers on, as soon as the fan turns on the CPAP shuts off.
I turned off the heated tube and humidifier but same thing.

So I ended up purchasing a Respironics 14.4 AH portable battery pack. twice the cost of the Poweradd.
Gets me 2 nights sleep while camping if I turn off the heated tube and humidifier, 1 night with them on.
It's about 12 lbs heavier than the Poweradd.
The PowerAdd 32000 intended purpose is for extending power for laptops, phone and tablets etc. The power draw for those devices is typically at a continuous rate. Li-ion battery packs have internal and external protective circuits which prevents conditions that might cause an explosive condition. Maybe the current surge of CPAP motor turning on an off is causing the PowerAdd's own protective circuit to shut it off.

_________________
Mask: Mirage Activa™ LT Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Travel CPAP machine - Transcend EZEX

MartinZZZ
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:44 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by MartinZZZ » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:26 pm

Hi,

I'm new here, just registered to relate my recent experience with a battery pack after reading this thread.
I was looking for a solution that would allow me to do 1 or 2 nights of camping away from a power source.
After I stumbled on this thread and read about the problem with the IntoCircuit Power Castle 26000 battery, I decided to try out one of the other battery packs mentioned in the opening post: The Anker Astro Pro2. I got the 2nd Gen version, the older version is no longer available on Amazon.de (I live in the Netherlands).

The Gen2 looks really neat, high quality finishing and has a nice power level display but no power plug conversion tips , which immediately proved to be a problem as the cable didn't fit my CPAP. In any case, using DIY cabling, my CPAP (an old but trusty and lightweight GoodKnight 425, tested without the heated humidifier) wouldn't run. The display would light up but that's it.
Since I didn't trust the cabling 100%, I bought a multimeter and measured all of the points you can measure in a situation like this. Current just wouldn't flow. Meanwhile, the battery itself seemed fine: charging my phone using the 5V usb port was not a problem, nor was powering a 12V car headlight bulb. So I sent it back to Amazon, sad to see it go as it looked pretty neat and was hoping to get a good solution out of it for only 60 euro's.

Was going to try the PowerAdd next but I'm a bit torn now with all the mixed experiences reported here. As an alternative, I might go for a Li-Ion battery pack instead, they weigh more than the modern Li-Polymer batteries but are less complicated.
Was thinking about two of these, in parallel witha pigtail cord as described by Game Padre in this topic on here...

User avatar
fat rat
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:39 am
Location: Germany, Rhein-Main-Area

Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by fat rat » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:50 pm

I have a PRS1, model 562 (European model) at 8 mbar and I measured the power consumption. The results could be interesting here because they explain why certain types of batteries will not work. The reason should be current peaks of about 6 amps! The measurement was done with a logging multimeter. I beleave most machines will have similar power requirements.

Use of a battery at 12V nominal voltage w/Flex (pos.2) w/ humidifier (pos.2) w/o heated hose
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0,114 A booting
0,083 A standby
6,294 A maximal amperage while starting
0,6686926573 A average amperage consumption over about 2h

Use of 80 W power supply with same settings w/ heated hose (pos2)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9 W power supply without machine
11 W standby with machine
104 W starting, max.
42,4999268293 W power consumption, average over about 2h

I hope this helps ordering the right size of the battery! The battery should be able to deliver for very short times up to 7A! If the machine is set at a higher pressure it may need even more! Consider also lower temperatures while camping!

My battery LiFePo4 12V 24 Ah works 24h (= 3 nights) w/ humidifier and about 20% (?) left to avoid fast aging.

Greetings
Fat Rat

_________________
Machine: PR System One REMStar 60 Series Auto CPAP Machine
Additional Comments: Weinmann JOYCEeasy FF Mask; Software: SleepyHead, Encore Basic
Last edited by fat rat on Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
fat rat
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:39 am
Location: Germany, Rhein-Main-Area

Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by fat rat » Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:47 pm

Hello MartinZZZ,

welcome to this forum!
MartinZZZ wrote: ...
Was thinking about two of these, in parallel witha pigtail cord as described by Game Padre in this topic on here...
That might work but I remain skeptical. The voltage conversion is not designed for such high peak currents - no good technical solution! Just Google for 'deben tracer', since you can find batteries for golf carts in lithium polymer or even LiFePo4. Not necessarily this but a similar type of batteries I would recommend - I use as a backup and for camping. In the US you can find much cheaper deals!

For camping I prefer LiFePo4's because they don't tend to runaway and they deliver more cycles ...

Hello to the Netherlands!

Greetings
Fat Rat

PS: You could look after motorcycle batteries; do not forget the matching charger!

_________________
Machine: PR System One REMStar 60 Series Auto CPAP Machine
Additional Comments: Weinmann JOYCEeasy FF Mask; Software: SleepyHead, Encore Basic

MartinZZZ
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:44 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by MartinZZZ » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:38 am

Hi fat rat,

thanks for posting the measurements about the peak current!
I looked up the deben tracer as you mentioned. Their website also explains the difference between LiPo and LiFePo3, noting that "Because of the higher performance these batteries are approximately twice the physical size of a LiPo battery." I really want to keep the weight down, and since I only need to cover 1 or maybe 2 nights away from the grid (think: overnight stay in the wild on a long-distance vacation trip), I think I'd be better off with a LiPo solution then.
(Besides, carrying >100Wh in lithium batteries makes a hassle when flying.)

So with all this, I'm now looking at the Deben Tracer 12V 8ah LiPo battery pack . With max. 8A continuous discharge and peak discharge of 30A, I think the current requirements should be covered. Also, it looks sturdy and more professional quality than the el cheapo packs from dx.com.
Any thoughts?

Something else that still puzzles me is why a car jump starter like the RAV 15000 wouldn't work (as reported by adant33), To be able to jump start a car, I'd expect them to deliver a very high peak current output??

MartinZZZ
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:44 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by MartinZZZ » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:59 am

Hi fat rat,

I saw your tip about the motorcycle battery, and actually my father got me one recently! It's a sealed lead acid battery, rated 4Ah, Not a lot, but without the humidifier I should be pull off a short night. The battery isn't big, but weighs 1.3 kg. The shop also sold him a tiny AC power adapter (12V 0.5A) to charge it, and fixed some cabling. Since it's a plain battery, it has no indicator whatsoever of its charging status, and I use a pocket multimeter to measure the voltage.
Unfortunately, even after hours of charging it doesn't seem to be able to power my cpap.

I calculated 16h of charging time based on the low output of the power adapter, and the voltage is good (12V) but I can't get my cpap to run off it. It'll start but then just shut off very soon. So I had given up on the thing, really. I still have it though. Any tips on using a motorcycle battery for CPAP?

User avatar
fat rat
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:39 am
Location: Germany, Rhein-Main-Area

Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by fat rat » Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:52 pm

Hi MartinZZZ,

Lead batteries need 6 cells for reaching nominal 12V. Maybe a bike even will start with 5 cells ... These batteries tend to die one cell after the other ... Motocycle and car lead batteries are designed to deliver high currents but they are extremly sensitiv against deep discharging. The problem might be that even a dead cell will reach nearly the end of charging voltage. You should measure the voltage with a corresponding load! My jump start (relativly new) powers my CPAP device for some hours - not tested how long exactly (and how often ).

If I would have to buy cheap and it should not be too heavy, I would try a LiFePo4 motocycle battery. I would expect that they stay alive for a time if only discharged to 50%. But honestly, I don't know much about their behavior ... If weight is not an issue at all and I needed a lot of capacity, I would choose a deep cycle battery, probably a marine battery.

I own the LiFePo4 12V 24 Ah from Tracer for camping or backup. It has about the double weight as the LiPo, but it promises many more cycles (1400 x to 300 x to 80% capacity) and for driving a golf cart it must be a deep cycle battery! And it does not tend to run away while (extremly) high currents. - For air traveling I would prefer the LiPo 12V 8 Ah, too!

Greetings
Fat Rat

_________________
Machine: PR System One REMStar 60 Series Auto CPAP Machine
Additional Comments: Weinmann JOYCEeasy FF Mask; Software: SleepyHead, Encore Basic

Riztan

Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by Riztan » Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:20 pm

All I can say is.... Type in Lipo fire in Google images and see what comes up...Do you really want that next to you when you sleep?

Amenite

Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by Amenite » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:15 am

Riztan wrote:All I can say is.... Type in Lipo fire in Google images and see what comes up...Do you really want that next to you when you sleep?
To be clear, "Lipo" and "LiFePo4" are two different animals despite both having lithium in their name. Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePo4) looks a lot safer than other Lithium Polymer chemistry. It is newer and may take more time to prove out (and come down in price) but they don't seem to burst into flames like their predecessors. And any battery with significant capacity is a potential hazard regardless of its chemistry.

User avatar
fat rat
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:39 am
Location: Germany, Rhein-Main-Area

Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by fat rat » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:00 am

Riztan wrote:All I can say is.... Type in Lipo fire in Google images and see what comes up...Do you really want that next to you when you sleep?
I will try to stay outside of Google or Youtube or any news report with my LiPo accumulaters and I use a lot of them.

Their safety circuits have to be constructed well and this type of batteries has to be handled with care. True, it is also to learn about the characteristics of these batteries and not tinker without such knowledge. It also makes sense to buy quality. - If this type of battery would not be manageable would you still call in phone booths.

If in weight possible I prefer but also LiFePO4, I already mentioned in previous posts.

Greetings
Fat Rat

_________________
Machine: PR System One REMStar 60 Series Auto CPAP Machine
Additional Comments: Weinmann JOYCEeasy FF Mask; Software: SleepyHead, Encore Basic

User avatar
Finster63
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:16 pm
Location: Dallas TX

Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by Finster63 » Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:54 pm

Good news!!!

I was able to get the PR System One REMStar 60 to work for three nights with the PowerAdd:
viewtopic/t103170/Backpacking-Hiking-an ... t-Pro.html
Home: ResMed S8 Escape II
Backpacking: PR System One REMstar 60 Series Plus with the PowerAdd 32000mAh battery:http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=103170&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
Travel: Zzz-PAP 'Silent Traveler'

jscholz
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:34 pm

Re: Battery power packs for camping

Post by jscholz » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:48 pm

That's great