Battery for PR System One REMstar 60 Series CPAP ??

[Pugsy]

In that thread it appeared that you tried to power up your 60 Series with a CPAP.com battery and you received "a service required notice flash on the screen". Were you not using the DC power cord described above when you got the error message?

I bought the power cord especially for the 60 series machine because the original cord that came with the battery kit fit the 50 series machine and wouldn't fit the 60 series...physically fit the little thing (sorry don't know what it is called) where we plug the power supply into the machine itself. That little round thing on the back of the machine in the hole..
Anyway..I bought that cord to try and was using that when I got the service error.

Now I don't know why the battery would not work. I was using the correct cord as it is the only one that would fit.
I didn't pursue any other batteries to try because it wasn't that important to me at the time. My understanding was that I simply had a battery that wasn't compatible and left it at that. It was given to me by someone who also went from a 50 series machine to a 60 series (I forget why but she no longer had her 50 series machine) and she got the right 60 series cord and it wouldn't work for her either. It had worked in the past though with her 50 series machine.
The idea was for me to test it on my 50 series machine just to make sure it wasn't something in the battery as she had no way to test it.
So it worked fine with my 50 series machine as far as it went which wasn't far using the humidifier (and I won't go without my humidifier) and it not going long didn't come as a big surprise there either.

She had been told that it SHOULD work with her 60 series machine by forum members here...so she wondered is it the battery or is it the machine.
Since it worked with my 50 series machine...it wasn't the battery.
A few months later I got my 60 series machine and then ordered that special cord so I could connect battery to the machine and I got the same service error she got...so it was definitely the battery having a problem with the 60 series machine.
When she got the battery originally there weren't any 60 series machines. She used it a couple of times I think.

Now as for cpap.com packaging the same battery saying it will work with a different cord...I don't know anything about that.
I am by batteries like I am by any other electric...I turn on the switch and lights come on and that's all I care to know.
I know nothing about various specs on this or that battery. I just can't wrap my brain around it enough for it to stick so I don't even try.

So if the batteries are indeed the same in my mind I don't see how it would be expected to work...since I have one that I know won't work. But again, I don't do electric stuff at all.
Though I didn't expect it to work because I knew it was an "older" model battery. I don't remember when the "not compatible with 60 series" was added to product description. When it was added I assumed it was battery issue and not because of power cord or they would just say.."won't work unless you have this power cord to hook it up to your machine".

I wish you good luck in your hunt for a battery that works that Quantas likes.

[djhall]

The information they are putting on their site indicates they use the same battery in their 60 series and 50 series kits and the difference is just the power cord they include.

Which new/different power cord? I bought a new 60 series something because the connection point on the 50 series and 60 series are a different size. Before I bought the new cord it wouldn't even fit.

Hmm....I am the first to say I have zero electrical aptitude and really don't care. That's why I try to stay out of electrical threads. I just wanted to clarify things since I was quoted and made out like I was surprised it wouldn't work. I wasn't.
I think this is what I bought.

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/dc-pow ... hines.html

Yep, that is the cord.

CPAP.com Battery Kit for Most Philips Respironics and Covidien Machines

• CPAP.com Battery
• 12 Volt DC Power Cord

CPAP.com Battery Kit for PR 60 Series System One Machines

• CPAP.com Battery
• Shielded DC Cord for PR System One 60 Series Machines

I was just pointing out that while the KITS are indeed incompatible, the reason for the incompatibility appears to be only the cord since the battery is the same in both kits.

[Pugsy]

I was just pointing out that while the KITS are indeed incompatible, the reason for the incompatibility appears to be only the cord since the battery is the same in both kits.

But...if I got the cord...which I did..then that means the battery should work with my 60 series machine...but it doesn't.

[djhall]

I was just pointing out that while the KITS are indeed incompatible, the reason for the incompatibility appears to be only the cord since the battery is the same in both kits.

But...if I got the cord...which I did..then that means the battery should work with my 60 series machine...but it doesn't.

Exactly! Which is what makes this so confusing. If they sell that battery and that cord together in a kit for the 60 series, and the battery itself is listed as, "compatible with any CPAP machine that has a 12v DC input. This includes Respironics Remstar Series, Respironics M Series, Puritan Bennett 420 series and Resmed's S8 series CPAP machines. See the CPAP.com Lithium Ion Battery Pack Kits which include machine specific DC cables" with no mention of 60 series incompatibility, then why isn't it working with the 60 series for either of you???? All the info on their website seems to indicate that it should and they expect it to be compatible, but both of you having defective machines or batteries is unlikely. I'd assume their 60 series battery kit doesn't actually work with the 60 series, but I think they would have tested that before they started selling them. He's tested the machine at 14 volts and it works.... so why the heck doesn't it work????? I solder electric circuits together and mod Xboxes and such for fun and I certainly can't explain why this is happening...

[djhall]

I was looking at a couple truckers' forums where their CPAP users talk about wiring their machines to the sleeper cab batteries to see what issues they are running into. The reference material they cite for their information... our own Battery Backup Design thread by JonhBFisher.

[SleepySleepNeeder]

One wonders if the restriction on batteries applies to single batteries only or if it also applies to battery packs. Because the CPAP batteries are actually packs of AA batteries which alone should pass spec.

[Islandwoman]

[quoteOne wonders if the restriction on batteries applies to single batteries only or if it also applies to battery packs. Because the CPAP batteries are actually packs of AA batteries which alone should pass spec.][/quote]

I am confused, The backup batteries I have seen on line have all been lithium batteries.

[Islandwoman]

Forgot this, I was looking at batteries suggested in the posts and liked the size of this one but there is no brand name. Has anyone used it? I have never heard of the company either. http://www.cpapxchange.com/travel-cpap- ... onics.html

[MikeInPA]

Forgot this, I was looking at batteries suggested in the posts and liked the size of this one but there is no brand name. Has anyone used it? I have never heard of the company either. http://www.cpapxchange.com/travel-cpap- ... onics.html

I have been communicating with them and they have been responsive. Their response to my concerns contained this information:

"We assume all of the specifications in the manual are correct and we've certainly not had any complaints from our customers about the batteries not working as they're designed to do. The only information we know of that has been altered recently by the manufacturer is that the Capacity is now 8.8 Ah rather than 10.4 Ah. Our batteries are manufactured by a company called CPAP Charge and are warrantied for 6 months from the date of purchase.

If you're using one with a 60 Series CPAP or BiPAP machine, without a heated humidifier then there should be no problems using it with your machine. If you did have any problems we would of course work with you to make sure they were solved ASAP. Our battery packs, when purchased with the correct DC cord have been successful and compatible with the 60 series machines. These batteries have been tested on many 60 series machines.

If you do have concerns about the smaller battery packs then you might also want to consider Respironics' own Long Life Battery Pack which can be found on the following page of our site:

http://www.cpapxchange.com/longlife-cpa ... onics.html "

[SleepySleepNeeder]

[quoteOne wonders if the restriction on batteries applies to single batteries only or if it also applies to battery packs. Because the CPAP batteries are actually packs of AA batteries which alone should pass spec.]

I am confused, The backup batteries I have seen on line have all been lithium batteries.[/quote]

What I said had nothing to do with whether the batteries are lithium ion, I am talking about single batteries in packs versus a large battery. For example, rechargeable laptop batteries are large single bateries whereas the CPAP battery pack is a bunch of smaller batteries connected together. So, does the spec apply to a battery pack as a whole, or the individual batteries within the pack?

[HoseCrusher]

To clear up some confusion we need to look at definitions.

A battery can be a single cell, or made up of several cells hooked together.

For example your car has a battery, but that battery is actually made up of 6 cells that are hooked together. Most laptop batteries are made up of 6 cells. The cell phone battery is made up of 1 cell.

Lithium is considered a hazardous material. There are restrictions to how much each person can carry on board an airplane.

Lithium is used in primary cells and is limited on airplanes to 1 gram per cell and a total of 2 grams for a battery pack.

In rechargable batteries lithium ions are used. There is technically no lithium in these cells, but under certain conditions (fire) the ions can plate out and form lithium. The limits on these are 1.5 grams of "equivalent lithium content" for cells and 8 grams of "equivalent lithium content" for battery packs.

Watt hours (Wh) is determined by multiplying the voltage of the battery (cell) by its capacity. For example a laptop battery pack may have 5.8 amp hours of capacity and a voltage of 12.6 volts. Multiplying together you end up with 73 Wh. Since this is below 100 Wh there are no restrictions as long as precautions are taken to prevent shorting them out. A single lithium ion cell can have around 12.2 Wh so once again it falls outside of the restrictions.

The problem comes when you have a large capacity battery. If your battery provides 12.6 volts and has a capacity of 12.7 amp hours, you exceed the 160 Wh allowed.

The specification applies to both single cells and a battery.

The listing for the battery on cpap.com includes the Wh of 97.2 and a line that states "Equivalent Lithium Ion Content." Since ions are very difficult to weigh it should read "Calculated Equivalent Lithium Content." If the voltage and capacity of the battery pack is not known you can estimate the lithium content by taking the capacity of a single cell, multiplying it by the number of cells in the battery, and then multiplying by 0.3. It takes roughly 0.3 grams of lithium to produce 1 amp hour of power.

The 97.2 Wh falls below the 100 Wh restriction so there is no problem there. If we take the 6.75 amp hour capacity, divide it by 4, multiply it by 0.3, then multiply it by 16 we come up with about 8 (and a little change) grams of equivalent lithium content. This complies with the regulations.

I would guess that this battery is made up of 4 strings of 4 cells in series and the series strings are paralleled together giving you a total of 16 cells.

[djhall]

To clear up some confusion we need to look at definitions.

I'm guessing you have a very patient wife! Not an insult! I completely relate, but I've had to learn that even my idea of the short version isn't short by anyone else's standards.

Actual conversation I had yesterday:
"Do you have a 9 volt battery?"
"Which letter is that?"
"Actually, AA, AAA, C, & D batteries are all 1.5 volts but differ in amp.... uh... its the rectangular one."

[HoseCrusher]

Actually...

My wife gets the short version.

It's the grandchildren that feel the need to drag every detail out. I am able to keep them entertained for hours...

[MikeInPA]

Lithium is considered a hazardous material. There are restrictions to how much each person can carry on board an airplane.

Lithium is used in primary cells and is limited on airplanes to 1 gram per cell and a total of 2 grams for a battery pack.

I asked Qantas about this sealed lead acid battery and this was their response:

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/respir ... d-kit.html

For Non-Spillable Batteries:

Regulations require the batteries to be 12V or less and 100Wh or less and a maximum of 2 spare batteries may also be carried.

Unfortunately at 12V and 14.4Ah, the sealed lead acid battery pack exceeds this restriction at 172.8Wh.

[HoseCrusher]

It look like you would be better off with the lithium ion battery pack. If you need more capacity you could get 2, if you can stand the price. At 97.2 Wh a main battery and a spare should pose no problems.