Battery for PR System One REMstar 60 Series CPAP ??

[Guest]

its time to use a voltmeter to measure the problem battery before and when the cpap is turned on
a low voltage will behave as you have described

[MikeInPA]

The battery kit comes with a plug for the CPAP and it has a plug at the other end that fits in a car cigarette lighter. The battery pack itself has a receptacle that is identical to the car cigarette lighter receptacle. So the machine can be plugged into either a car's 12V receptable or the battery's 12V receptacle. And yes the voltage can vary a couple of volts, as a car will produce nearly 14 volts when running but usually 12V plus or minus a little otherwise.

My unit is a REMStar Pro System One with CFlex+, 12V transformer (60 or 80 watts). I have two battery packs, one a couple years newer than the other, both Li-ion. One is 14.8V/6.6AH #1674, the other is 14.4V/6.75AH/97.2Wh #06239. Both operate the unit just fine. All you need is a functional 12V power supply and it doesn't matter how much power it has one bit. And a couple volts doesn't make a difference. But just make sure your humidifier is electrically unplugged so it's not working! You can damage it if you try to run it off the battery pack. You can still use it for passover humidification, you just don't want the heater to turn on.

All of the information you have supplied is exactly what I would have expected and dealt with. I have detached the humidifier.

It appears that your machine is not a 60 series ... I've had two battery companies say they are having problems with the 60 series.

[MikeInPA]

its time to use a voltmeter to measure the problem battery before and when the cpap is turned on
a low voltage will behave as you have described

Good idea except that I have already returned the CPAP.com battery.

If they are reading this maybe they can run the test on it ...

I will test things in my car tomorrow and see what the running voltage is and if the machine still operates when the engine is running.

[SleepySleepNeeder]

All of the information you have supplied is exactly what I would have expected and dealt with. I have detached the humidifier.
It appears that your machine is not a 60 series ... I've had two battery companies say they are having problems with the 60 series.

Then you probably know, you can still get benefit from leaving the humidifier attached and part of the airflow with water in it? All you need to do is unplug the power connector that goes from it to the main unit.

Just saw this battery pack specifically for the 60-series on the forum home page. I believe it's one of the two I own.
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/cpap.c ... cable.html

[MikeInPA]

Then you probably know, you can still get benefit from leaving the humidifier attached and part of the airflow with water in it? All you need to do is unplug the power connector that goes from it to the main unit.

Just saw this battery pack specifically for the 60-series on the forum home page. I believe it's one of the two I own.
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/cpap.c ... cable.html

Thanks for the info.

Concerning the CPAP.com battery kit, they bundle their one standard battery with the appropriate DC cable and call it a "kit". The battery in the kit is the one I had the problem with.

The CPAP.com rep said that the Respironics battey would work but it's larger than what's allowed on Qantas planes.

[SleepySleepNeeder]

Concerning the CPAP.com battery kit, they bundle their one standard battery with the appropriate DC cable and call it a "kit". The battery in the kit is the one I had the problem with.
The CPAP.com rep said that the Respironics battey would work but it's larger than what's allowed on Qantas planes.

What's with Qantas? Is their restriction based on the current spate of Li battery issues? Is it against transporting them, or using them in-flight? Is it agaisnt all batteries, or just Li batteries, or just certain amount of available power in a group of them? It hardly makes sense since that is a standard CPAP battery pack and has been used safely for years without any issues. Surely it's not based on size or weight?

I was just noticing that the 60-series special kit is only special because of a shielded battery cable that cannot be used with any other CPAP machine. Weird.

[MikeInPA]

What's with Qantas? Is their restriction based on the current spate of Li battery issues? Is it against transporting them, or using them in-flight? Is it agaisnt all batteries, or just Li batteries, or just certain amount of available power in a group of them? It hardly makes sense since that is a standard CPAP battery pack and has been used safely for years without any issues. Surely it's not based on size or weight?

I was just noticing that the 60-series special kit is only special because of a shielded battery cable that cannot be used with any other CPAP machine. Weird.

They are International Air Transport Association (IATA) Dangerous Goods Regulations (240 members comprise 84% of the total air traffic) http://www.iata.org/Pages/default.aspx

From the Qantas web site: http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airline ... #spillable

Dangerous Goods are items that may endanger the safety of an aircraft or persons on board the aircraft. Dangerous Goods are also known as restricted articles, hazardous materials and dangerous cargo. Their carriage on aircraft is governed by the IATA Dangerous Goods Regulations and the Civil Aviaiton Safety Authority Regulations.

Portable Medical Electronic Devices

Airline (operator) approval is required for Automated External Defibrillators (AED), Nebulizer, Continuous Positive Airway Pressure (CPAP), etc.), Oxygen Concentrators using the following lithium batteries:

lithium ion batteries with a Watt hour rating between 101 - 160Wh
lithium metal batteries with a lithium metal content not more than 8g

No more than two spare batteries may be carried in carry-on baggage only.

From their letter giving me approval to carry the larger batteries good until the end of 2014:

There is no quantity restriction for spare lithium batteries with a watt-hour rating less than 100Wh. They still must be carried in carry-on baggage only with the terminals insulated.

IATA Lithium battery passenger pamphlet: http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/ ... rFlyer.jpg

Based on this I would think that the battery manufacturers would design the batteries accordingly. But what do I know ... I'm just a consumer.

[MikeInPA]

If you read the specs for the Paul C Buff Vagabond Mini, it specifically states it is not for use for modeling lights.
That suggests that it won't be satisfactory for the CPAP application.
Call them for clarification before ordering.

I did notice that and I read through the web site information. http://www.paulcbuff.com/faq.php#vagabondsystems

"... modeling lamps are not generally used because their power draw would quickly deplete the battery, slow recycle times dramatically, and could overheat the inverter if modeling lamps over 120 Watts are used".

"Both the Vagabond Mini™ Lithium and previously offered Vagabond™ II system (discontinued) may be used to power non-flash continuous loads for small electrical appliances such as fans, computers or radios. The maximum continuous power drawn in such applications is 120 Watts for the Vagabond Mini™ Lithium ... If you plan to power auxiliary equipment, you should consult the product’s manual and / or check with the product manufacturer to determine the power consumption."

Two users in the following discussion have sucessfully used the Vanguard for their CPAP machines:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=89114&st=0&sk=t&sd=a[/quote]

"I've used it with my ResMed S9 AutoSet and can get around 13 hours of use per charge".

They were using the S8 and S9 Auto Set machines which draw more power than the 60 Series according to the "Machine Pressure and Battery Options and Performance" statistics on CPAP.com. Using the Respironics battery as the baseline with a pressure setting of 12, the S9 would operate for about 17.9 hours on one charge, the S8 would run for 17.2 hours and the 60 Series would run for about 22.5 hours. The CPAP battery would power the S8 for about 8.1 hours and the 60 series for 10.6 hours (no info available for the S9).

(I have been researching batteries for over two months now, and you would think that all one needs to do is decide which 12v battery offers the best value. I am currently trying to get sellers to waive the 15% restocking fees so I can try to find a successful battery. One company refused, even though they state that their battery is compatible. Another agreed, but doesn't have a battery under 161wh in stock. I am hoping that this thread will document the issue with the 60 Series and save others from going through what I have been going through. I purchased the CPAP.com battery six weeks before my trip thinking that I was way ahead of things. Now I'm less than three weeks away and need to get this resolved.)

[MikeInPA]

Just a quick note.

I am not the only one encountering this and it isn't a new problem.

From a Jul 30, 2013 posting: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=91178&p=839418&hili ... d+#p839418

"...I did get a service required notice flash on the screen and I know why. I was attempting to try to power my machine with a cpap battery.
My machine now is a 60 series machine and it is not compatible with the cpap battery pack I was attempting to use.
I tried twice and got the service error twice on the screen when I plugged the machine into the cpap batter pack".

Why CPAP.com continues to market this for the 60 Series is mystifying.

[Pugsy]

That was me in that old thread and the battery pack I had was NOT compatible with the 60 series and in fact it had been produced and bought before the 60 series machines were released.
It worked just fine on my 50 series which was what it was originally intended to be used on.
It wasn't a surprise to me that it would not work. I got it from someone else who had changed to a 60 series machine and it wouldn't work for her. We wondered if it was a fluke with her machine but mine gave the same error once I bought a 60 series machine.

This is the battery that I have
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/cpap.c ... cable.html

It plainly states not compatible with 60 series.

[djhall]

This is the battery that I have
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/cpap.c ... cable.html
It plainly states not compatible with 60 series.

The incompatible battery kit you reference is composed of two parts, a battery and a DC cord, both of which they sell separately. If you follow the link to page with the cord by itself, that page states the cord is not compatible with the 60 series. If you follow the link to the battery by itself there is no mention of the battery being incompatibly and the specs page for the battery by itself says: "The CPAP.com Battery Kit for PR 60 Series System One Machines includes the CPAP.com battery and the Shielded DC Cord for PR System One 60 Series Machines."

The information they are putting on their site indicates they use the same battery in their 60 series and 50 series kits and the difference is just the power cord they include.

[Pugsy]

The information they are putting on their site indicates they use the same battery in their 60 series and 50 series kits and the difference is just the power cord they include.

Which new/different power cord? I bought a new 60 series something because the connection point on the 50 series and 60 series are a different size. Before I bought the new cord it wouldn't even fit.

Hmm....I am the first to say I have zero electrical aptitude and really don't care. That's why I try to stay out of electrical threads. I just wanted to clarify things since I was quoted and made out like I was surprised it wouldn't work. I wasn't.
I think this is what I bought.

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/dc-pow ... hines.html

[MikeInPA]

This is the battery that I have
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/cpap.c ... cable.html

It plainly states not compatible with 60 series.

You are absolutely correct and this is where I have been confused.

Yes, that battery kit states "Non-Compatible Machines. This battery kit will NOT work with the following Respironics and Puritan Bennett machines: ... ALL PR System One REMStar 60 Series Machines" and I think that is because the DC power cord can't be used on the 60 series. "The CPAP.com Battery Kit for Most Philips Respironics and Covidien Machines includes the CPAP.com Battery Pack and the DC cable compatible with most of the older machines made by Philips Respironics and Covidien machines".

But then they apparently package the same battery pack with the 60 series DC cord: https://www.cpap.com/productpage/cpap.c ... cable.html "This kit is made up the very small and lightweight CPAP.com lithium ion battery and the DC Cable for 60 Series machines".

After I encountered the problem with the CPAP.com battery I called them and the CPAP rep only offered me the Respironics battery as an option for my machine: https://www.cpap.com/productpage/respir ... d-kit.html She then gave me an RMA number to return the battery and get a (hopefully full) refund since the Respironics battery is too large to bring on Qantas.

[MikeInPA]

The information they are putting on their site indicates they use the same battery in their 60 series and 50 series kits and the difference is just the power cord they include.

Which new/different power cord? I bought a new 60 series something because the connection point on the 50 series and 60 series are a different size. Before I bought the new cord it wouldn't even fit.

Hmm....I am the first to say I have zero electrical aptitude and really don't care. That's why I try to stay out of electrical threads. I just wanted to clarify things since I was quoted and made out like I was surprised it wouldn't work. I wasn't.
I think this is what I bought.

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/dc-pow ... hines.html

I apologize if I misquoted you. In that thread it appeared that you tried to power up your 60 Series with a CPAP.com battery and you received "a service required notice flash on the screen". Were you not using the DC power cord that you described above when you got the error message?

[MikeInPA]

So far:

I received a "service required" error message when using a fully charged CPAP.com battery with the 60 Series DC adapter cord.

Concerning a CPAPSupplyUSA battery: http://www.cpapsupplyusa.com/CPBPack-CP ... yPack.aspx the CPAPSupplyUSA rep stated that "it will not run the 60 series we have tried."

Some of the other companies that I have contacted are sure that their batteries work with the 60 series but are unwilling to waive the 15% restocking fee since many folks use the batteries for one trip and then return them. I am not willing to risk 15% every time I try a new battery. One company said they would waive the fee but they didn't have a smaller battery to fit my requirements.

I was able to use my 60 series in my car (engine off) and in an auto jumper cable pack DC sockets. I am not going to try using the 60 series in my running car because the instructions for the adapter cord state "When DC power is obtained from a vehicle battery, the device should not be used while the vehicle's engine is running. Damage to the device may occur."

I just received a DC female adapter for a small battery pack that I have had for some years now and I had success with it. It is the Tekkeon myPower ALL 3400 Universal Rechargeable Battery (now discontinued - but a newer model is available). http://www.tekkeon.com/downloads/UG_mpALL_33_3400.pdf

I connected the cables and set the voltage to 12v. The 60 series powered up and ran successfully. It also ran well when I bumped it up to 14v and also when I lowered it to 9v.

I am going to use this older 50Wh or so battery tonight and see how it holds up. If all goes well I plan to order the Tekkeon myPower ALL Plus MP3450 R3 External Laptop Battery Bundle http://www.tekkeon.com/products-mypowerall.html which will give me 100Wh in the two mated battery packs and I will also have my older model 3400 as backup. You can also carry as many of these as you wish when you fly since they are under the 101Wh International Dangerous Goods limit and these packs can be used to power multiple devices and voltages.