Scary Stupid People

[Janknitz]

Excerpts from another forum I'm on:

Q: I know someone with sleep apnoea. I'm reluctant to go down the cPAP route as I do not believe it fixes the root cause ...

A: My husband has sleep apnea and we both hate the cpap machine. We stacked some books on the nightstand and placed a small fan on them so that it is level with his face. When he sleeps, the fan blows on his face, (weakly) mimicking the effect of the machine and it works. The only downside is that occasionally he rolls over or onto his back and I have to nudge him back onto his side facing the fan, but then he stops snoring.

Response from OP: I really like that idea. It sounds far less invasive than CPAP. I shall suggest that.

Btw, the OP claims to be a "consultant in stroke rehabilitation" although she has NO formal training in that field.

Lord help her friend!!!

[JohnBFisher]

Darwin has a way of being right ... Sigh!!

[purple]

Years before starting xPAP treatment I told my doc I slept better with a fan on me. He replied, "That is a common statement of his patients who had heart disease, usually congestive heart failure."

[-tim]

Years before starting xPAP treatment I told my doc I slept better with a fan on me. He replied, "That is a common statement of his patients who had heart disease, usually congestive heart failure."

I've heard that is very bad...

[Kiralynx]

My mother, who had congestive heart failure, liked to sleep with a fan on her face.

(I sat with Mom a number of times and listened to her breathing patterns... and I am convinced she had apnea. Neither she, not my father, were willing to consider it. Among other things, Mom said those AWFUL MASKS would RUIN HER HAIR! Once, when Mom was in the hospital with a heart issue, I broached the subject to her doctor and was told, "We can't worry about apnea now: she's got congestive heart failure!")

I also slept with a fan after the hip pain developed which, 6.5 years later, led to my apnea diagnosis. Go figure: many times, for my fan, I used a hair dryer with a hose, yet I was horrified at the idea of CPAP. (Actually, what horrified me then, and still does now, was the idea of straps all over my face.)

[robysue]

Scary, truly scary.

Then again: Prior to starting CPAP I hated sleeping under a fan. I still hate sleeping under a fan. I think the fact that I absolutely hated sleeping under a fan was part of why I had such troubles adjusting to PAP. It really felt as though I was not only sleeping under a fan, but that I could not get away from the fan's unwelcome breeze by turning over and snuggling further down under the covers.

[JohnBFisher]

Funny how we associate different memories with the same things. For me, a fan had two memories. We used room fans and a whole house fan to cool ourselves in the summer. So a fan helps me feel comfortable .. even in winter. Secondly, since I disliked my father's smoke from his cigarettes, a fan meant fresher air. Even in the winter. That pattern was set early and persists to this day.

[chunkyfrog]

I hate the term "congestive heart failure". It is grossly misleading.
My mother lived several full, active, independent years after her diagnosis and treatment;
but some families and caregivers accept it as a death sentence.
Names can kill.

[kwikwater]

For me it's earplugs rather than fans. I worked various forms of night shifts and I got used to earplugs to sleep during the day with plenty of kids playing near my window in the summer. When I left nights I found that I slept better with earplugs, even at night. I said it was part of my routine. Truth was, if my apnea didn't rouse me, I OFTEN woke up still hearing the echo of my snoring. I even think I'm warmer with earplugs when camping in tents at 10-20 degrees. Then came CPAP. Well, ... I've become so used to total quiet, that the machine noise drives me crazy. Good thing I liked earplugs already!!!!

Whether it's fans, a tennis ball in your back or earplugs, if in fact it's apnea xPAP is the answer!!!

[DoriC]

Your title says it all! A fan mimicks a cpap machine....really??? Why hasn't the world been informed of this??

[HerbM]

I absolutely agree that "Heart Failure" in general is a terribly misleading term.

While it is very serious, it isn't what it sounds like (necessarily).

My heart condition was near this with atrial fibrillation (AFib) and severely reduced ejection fraction (and one night with terrible fluid retention which might have been the congestive part as that is one symptom.)

Heck, for that matter, atrial fibrillation sounds worse than it is (it's bad, but not THAT bad either.) Ventricular Fibrillation kills in minutes and that is the one we see on TV all the time. AFib cause the atrium to stop pumping and therefore they don't FILL the ventricle quickly enough for it to be efficient, especially at increased loads during exercise.

But I was mobile, alert, not feeling THAT awful except that I couldn't lie down or sleep as that would cause my airway to flood with fluid and induce coughing spasms.

My ejection fraction was less than 25% -- which ALSO is bad but sounds MUCH worse than it is because average healthy EF is something like 55-60%.

So while it was serious at about 40-50% of normal it wasn't 25% of NORMAL.

During that period, I would lose my breath with getting up or STARTING to move, then it was like my heart would kick in and I'd be fairly Ok. My body was likely producing adrenaline to kick my heart into gear and that would allow it to keep up with exercise.

In fact during the entire period, I kept practicing and teaching Combatives & Self-Defense -- asking my doctors repeatedly if it was Ok to exercise. The answer was always, 'If you feel good enough, keep going.'

FYI: In our combatives discipline we fight regularly at FULL SPEED and with FULL OPPOSITION and I continued to do that and could still keep up with both 20 year olds and old hands who really know how to fight.

Only oddity was my profuse sweating (whatever you imagine for "sweating a lot", triple it.)

This sweating was likely due to running my cardiac system on adrenaline to keep up.

BTW: I am fully treated and practically recovered at this point. No AFib, and my ejection fraction was back to 50% (some months ago) which is about 90% of normal.

My cardiomyopathy as idiopathic (no known cause)

Darn, there is another word that sounds worse than it might be: Cardiomyopathy. (Sick Heart)

The BIG reason for Cardiomyopathy and Heart Failure is "ischemia" or narrowing of the blood vessels supplying the heart (engendering stents and Bypass Surgery).

So, I had to go in for a cardiac catheterization (doesn't sound so good either but isn't too bad).

The procedure cardiology took one look and told me (yes, you get to be awake), "Nothing for me to do here; my work is done."

(He would have placed a stent in some simple cases of ischemia.)


Hopefully it's still improving from 50% -- and the sleep doc today indicated that my unknown cause cardiomyopathy (not quite heart failure) could easily have been caused or made worse by the OSA.

So guess what:

Apnea can cause AFib and AFib can cause heart failure.

Do you think that if my OSA had been caught in 2008, that I might have avoided an awful lot (literally) of trouble, expense and worry?

Idiopathic my foot!

[chunkyfrog]

When a doctor says "idiopathic", be alert, he might be an "idiot".
--or his brand of medicine is a bit behind.

[prion]

The funny thing about this is it might work to some extent........ she is forcing him to face the fan and stay on his side.
Some people have worse apnea in different positions, so just through luck the outcome is like one
of those belts with the bumps on it to keep you off your back. This is a perfect example of how
superstitions get started.

[chunkyfrog]

--and if it doesn't, there is no concrete evidence--except for anonymous chat on the Internet.

[Nozzelnut]

I'm a fan fan. I've been sleeping with one on me for decades. Growing up we didn't have air conditioning so it was an inexpensive way to keep cooler during the summer nights. Then one fall, I kept the fan on and that's the way it's been for a long time. I've had tinnitus as long as I can remember and it helps drown out the ringing a bit too.