saline solution in heated humidifier

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Snoozin' Bluezzz
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Post by Snoozin' Bluezzz » Mon May 08, 2006 11:18 am

I don't recommend using vaseline with CPAP. First, it can damage or the nasal pillow materials. So while it helps at first to get a good seal, it will deteriorate the seal long-term. Second, vaseline can create upper respiratory problems should it get into your bronchial tract or lungs. Ayr is probably the safer option.
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neversleeps
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Post by neversleeps » Mon May 08, 2006 11:34 am

Snoozin' Bluezzz wrote:
I don't recommend using vaseline with CPAP. First, it can damage or the nasal pillow materials. So while it helps at first to get a good seal, it will deteriorate the seal long-term. Second, vaseline can create upper respiratory problems should it get into your bronchial tract or lungs. Ayr is probably the safer option.
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needingu
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Post by needingu » Mon May 08, 2006 6:46 pm

[quote="roztom"]Depending on the part of the country you're in will determine the
**
The me Roztom, While traveling on a trip a couple weeks ago I failed to have the distilled water...so I used bottled water from the coke machine ....what do you think, will it damage the unit...I cleaned it as soon as I got home and always us distilled at home. Was just caught at the hotel with no alternative


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Post by Guest » Mon May 08, 2006 7:30 pm

needingu wrote: While traveling on a trip a couple weeks ago I failed to have the distilled water...so I used bottled water from the coke machine ....what do you think, will it damage the unit...I cleaned it as soon as I got home and always us distilled at home. Was just caught at the hotel with no alternative

Oh no! Don't use water from a coke machine. You may fall prey to the accordion effect. Remember what almost happened to Hendrix.

Use the pepsi machine next time.

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Goofproof
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Post by Goofproof » Mon May 08, 2006 9:31 pm

I was at a Motel and didn't have distilled water, my dog was with me and I was going to fill mine from the toilet, but the dog wanted all the water for himself and wouldn't let me near it. Next time I'll leave the dog at home. Jim



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He let me have some of his water, Good Doggy!
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pratzert
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Post by pratzert » Tue May 09, 2006 6:43 am

I'd have to say that it is COMPLETELY possible that "water" ate through the bottom plate of a HH "IF" it was some sort of metal.... not plastic.

I am on well water where I live... and the pH of my untreated water is 5.9.

That is Extremely acidic. Enough so, that it will actually disolve the copper in the copper portions of my plumbing. Until I treated/corrected the acidity by running the water through a neutralizer, my water would run green from the shower and spigots in the house. Why ??? Becasue the water was acidic enough to eat away at the copper.

That's one of the reasons you see houses built in the countryside on well water, use the plastic pipe and not copper.

I speak from knowledge and experience on this one. I've had to spend thousands on the water treatment system for my house.

So once again, yes, it "is" possible for water to eat through metal.

As for bottled water.... in a pinch if I can't get waterout of the tap. But Consumer Reports has done studies and investigations about the Bottled water industry and, believe it or not, they found some bottled water companies that did nothing more than pour water in a bottle right from the tap in the factory.

Tim

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davem
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Post by davem » Tue May 09, 2006 9:02 pm

I'm new to this message board but not to CPAP. I've been on CPAP therapy for 9 years now...and I'm still using my original Remstar Choice and F&P HH. Actually, I just replaced my original hose, Adam circuit headgear and nasal pillows this month.

I just wanted to add my 2 cents about the tap water vs distilled water in the HH. I have used both tap and distilled. When using tap water, I rinse the chamber every day and wash it with a little dish washing liquid after 3 or 4 days. The only problem I've noticed after all this time is that the chamber has begun to yellow slightly. No cracks, leaks, or damaged furniture.

Dave


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Post by Darth Vader Look » Tue May 09, 2006 11:21 pm

The yellowing is likely caused by UV light. The tap water would probably have nothing to do with it.

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Snoredog
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Post by Snoredog » Wed May 10, 2006 2:59 am

Darth Vader Look wrote:The yellowing is likely caused by UV light. The tap water would probably have nothing to do with it.
Wrong, not even a good guess. Where I live the tap water comes directly out of the San Joaquin Delta.

Inland waters that has for more than half a century had farming run off, International shipping come through it dumping their bilge water and what ever else they wanted to dump in it along the way.

Then add to that years and years of pleasure boat usage, fishing boats and jet skiis where the 2-stroke engines dumped their gasoline laden exhaust waste directly into those same waters. Gasoline that contained the chemical MTBE. A chemical now banned throughout the state of Calif because it remains in sediment and ground for years and doesn't leach out. Some of that water goes down south to Los Angel es for their tap water the rest we use up here for farming irrigation and in our case tap water.

Sure our tap water goes to one of those modern EPA approved city processing plants and they even send us annual reports telling us how clean it is and safe to drink (required by EPA to do that). They also mix it with well-based ground water to improve its quality further.

But all one has to do is take a simple 1.5 gallon Sears water distiller and distill 1 (one) gallon of that tap water and you'll change your tune about UV rays causing that silicone to turn brown, and drinking that water.

Next time I distill a gallon of that tap water, I'll dump the discharge water from the distiller into a martini glass and take a picture of it and put it on-line.

Last time I did that with only a gallon of water it looked like dark ice tea and filled a martini glass about 1/4. All that from only a gallon of tap water. And we have been drinking water like this since we were kids. That is a lot from only a gallon, water supposedly approved by our local and federal government to be safe to drink.

How did I come about to finding this? A guy at work showed it to me one day as I didn't believe it either, he was drinking from his own jug per say, but the proof is in the pudding and it will change the way you think about city provided tap water. He had a picture up on a website (or did), if I still had that URL I'd post his also.

But Distilled water tastes like crap to drink, you have to run it through a carbon filter like a Brita water pitcher to remove the rank taste and make it drinkable, then it is the purest water you can get.

By contrast, I can take a gallon of water from my under sink Reverse Osmosis water system and the distiller won't have ANY discharge water after it is distilled.


Larry
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Post by Larry » Wed May 10, 2006 8:44 am

Nestle Pure Life Purified bottled drinking water - "Nestle Pure Life Purified Water is purified using reverse osmosis or distillation and enhanced with a balance of minerals for taste." Use bottled drinking water in your humidifier and these minerals will be left behind.

Snoredog forgot to mention the little kids who have peed in his Delta water.

Sodium is soluble in water and will travel with the water vapor. When the water evaporates, the sodium is left behind in the humidifier chamber, your PAP equipment, or your lungs. If you leave the humidifier chamber connected to your PAP, I assume the salt and/or moisture could drift back into unit and cause a problem with metallic components in the air path.

Water in conjunction with the minerals in it can form electrolysis loops that will "eat" through metal pipes. Both city water and especially well water contain potentially corrosive minerals.

For a buck a gallon, I see no reason to use anything but distilled water with my APAP and humidifier.


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tomjax
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water

Post by tomjax » Wed May 10, 2006 9:08 am

Sodium Ions are indeed soluble in water, but it DOES NOT travel with the vapor.

Where did you get this mininformation?


Guestus

Re: water

Post by Guestus » Wed May 10, 2006 1:46 pm

[quote="tomjax"]Sodium Ions are indeed soluble in water, but it DOES NOT travel with the vapor.

Where did you get this mininformation?


Guest

Re: water

Post by Guest » Wed May 10, 2006 1:54 pm

[quote="tomjax"]Sodium Ions are indeed soluble in water, but it DOES NOT travel with the vapor.

Where did you get this mininformation?


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roster
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Re: water

Post by roster » Wed May 10, 2006 6:41 pm

[quote="tomjax"]Sodium Ions are indeed soluble in water, but it DOES NOT travel with the vapor.

Where did you get this mininformation?


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tomjax
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vapor

Post by tomjax » Wed May 10, 2006 8:05 pm

I am guessing that the 13 ounces I breathe in every night is mainly droplets with a very small amount of vapor from the evaporation process.

---------------
You guessed wrong.
Water droplets are present in cold air humidifiers as a result of physical bashing the water against rotating fingers- actually, the other way around
There are no droplets and all is VAPOR..

The heat causes a phase transition- from liquid to vapor.

In a sense, the water condensed from the hose is not the same as the water in the tank- it never entered the hose as water, only vapor, but condensed back into water when it got cooler. So if the tank were full of bacteria, none would be in the rainout or condensate.

The pathogens- bacteria and virus cannot hitch a ride on this.

This is why there is no danger of getting bacteria in the hose- even if you use water from the toilet or the creek.

The only reason to use distilled water is to prevent the buildup of minerals that result from the water evaporating.

That is well established.
I'm still trying to visualize the posting that suggested the water film from the tank to the mask is somehow a highway for the bacteria to migrate.
Kinda like the salmon swimming up the gates.

Thought: Don't confuse them with facts, their minds are made up.