dental cream/fixadent on mouth works better than tape for me

[Sleepless on LI]

Well, last night I used it again and it wasn't as successful. Seems I ended up having those mouth puffs of air in the middle of the night that woke me up. The pressure against my lips was too much. Funny, too, how the Fixodent stayed sealed. So in my groggy state, just managed to poke a hole in between my lips to allow SOME seepage of air out to eliminate that build-up in my cheeks and went back to sleep.

I found, though, that I was waking up during the night, as usual. There goes my theory. And when I woke up in the morning, my lips became very tender when I removed it. I don't know if it's irritating to me or I just applied too much last night and ended up sensitizing my lips. Looking at my data, it seems my leak graph still rises and drops but the number was a bit lower.

So all things considered, I am going to stick with no taping, Fixodent-ing or anything else at all. My AHI is fine with treatment and it doesn't seem to be adding anything to the mix FOR ME. It seems my leaks are mostly coming from the mask, which I really didn't think leaked all that much.

[Snoozin' Bluezzz]

I too persisted for a third day and also was not quite as successful but I am not giving up yet because Saturday was really good.

I think that the application of the adhesive has to be done carefully and somewhat precisely. I suspect I did not have enough last night and during the early morning (4-5) my lips came unsealed (there go all my promises to keep my lips sealed forever). Surprisingly though I don't think i was mouth breathing. I dozed until rising and each time I awoke my tongue was firmly tucked behind my teeth and I was getting all my air from the interface.

I think that the adhesive has to be enough, but not too much, and spread very evenly on the lips to get a good consistent and durable seal. I really like not taping (at least as a break) so I am going to persist.

SB

[Sleepless on LI]

I had two very successful nights if we're gauging success by the Fixodent keeping the lips sealed, which it did on both nights. However, it made me highly aware of the fact that I still do get those pesky mouth puffs of air, which I didn't think were happening anymore. What is the choice here, keep my lips sealed and wake up feeling (and I'm sure looking) like a blowfish multiple times per night, thereby causing arousals, or having my lips have the ability to release that air in my sleep without me knowing it, very temporarily reducing my pressure through my mouth opening? I think I'll choose the latter.

At the risk of sounding defeated and depressing some of the newcomers, I am going to say that I will just come to terms with the fact that, at least for me, therapy will NEVER be perfect or without drawbacks; and as long as my AHI's are low, my health maintained, and I feel that I am getting enough rest, I will consider my treatment successful. I still will, however, hope for the day when we hear word of a new and far easier way to treat OSA.

[Snoozin' Bluezzz]

I'm with you Lori, I don't think those puffs of air are that big a deal. If your numbers are good then that should be enough.

I think a gaping mouth that is Saharan dry the next morning is a bigger problem for me and that is what was happening but it doesn't seem to take very much for me to keep my mouth closed. The light adhesive seems to work. My bigger problem I think is seal leaks around the interface, whether it be pillows or nasal. They seem to wake me up frequently.

The biggest interference I have to a good nights sleep, besides untreated OSA, is joint pain from age, and weight, related arthritis. When I take to Ibuprofen I sleep through the night, no trips to the loo. I just don't like taking that much analgesic everyday.

SB

[TerryB]

Well, first try wasn't spectacular in either direction. Made it through til 3AM with the seal in tact without the chin strap. Once the seal started to go it was fully back to mouth breathing and Sahara dry. Clean up wasn't bad, so I'm gonna have another try tonight.

TerryB

[Sleepless on LI]

SB,

I only wish taking an IB would give me the privilege of sleeping through the night. I've come to terms with rarely doing that, but being happier with the energy I get from using the machine. If I didn't use it, I still wouldn't sleep through the night, anyway, but at least this way I'm healthier and more rested.

No one said getting old was going to be easy. And if they did, they'd be liars. Or at least for the great majority of people.

[roztom]

Lori:

Intereswting you mention the mouth puffs.

What does one do with that air? You need to expel it, right? If your lips are sealed all you can do is swallow it and that leads to a whole 'nother set of problems.

I suspect I'm swallowing some air thru the night. I also get the puffing towards morning when my tongue is really relaxed and it doesn't seal as well. So under those conditions I assume taping or sealing might not be the best solution anyway.

Tom

[Sleepless on LI]

Lori:

Intereswting you mention the mouth puffs.

What does one do with that air? You need to expel it, right? If your lips are sealed all you can do is swallow it and that leads to a whole 'nother set of problems.

I suspect I'm swallowing some air thru the night. I also get the puffing towards morning when my tongue is really relaxed and it doesn't seal as well. So under those conditions I assume taping or sealing might not be the best solution anyway.

Tom

Tom,

My point exactly. The sealing of my lips caused me to wake up from my distended cheeks and pressure against my lips from my mouth being filled with air. It does make one wonder, though, why if the air is being "injected," as I call it, into the nostrils with a nasal pillow interface, how/why it finds its way into the mouth instead of going straight into the throat. Guess it likes to take little detours.

For me, it's not the best solution to keep my lips sealed, while I'm sleeping at least...but that's also mainly because I don't have any real side effects from the occasional mouth breath, at least according to my data.

[roztom]

Lori:

it doesn't seem to be impacting my data or therapy. It only seems to disturb my sleep - which I wish didn't happen.

The air puffs happens to me as air seeps past my tongue into my mouth.

As the pressure goes higher so do the leaks

One thing I did notice is when I used a chin-strap (not my favorite xPAP event), it pressed the soft tissue under my jaw up and that helpd my tongue seal.

Of course everybodys jaw and soft tissue structure is different so who knows if that is a good option. It does work for me but I violently dislike a chin-strap. I have a Respironics strap whch is supposed to be a good one but it slips off sometime during the night and adds a bit of clausto feeling.

Tom

[Ellen]

When I get "blowfish" cheeks from air filling mouth - you will notice that you no longer have that good "tongue to roof of mouth" seal - Use your tongue to move the air to back of throat where pressurized air will move that air quickly into lungs, eliminating swallowing air to stomach or having to open mouth to let air out.

[roztom]

Lori: That's interesting.

When I've tried that I've just felt an air bubble at the back of my throat but it didn't get pulled in.

Tom

[Snoozin' Bluezzz]

Hey, guess what! I have an opinion here. How about that! Me, with an opinion?

So here it is. Anything that wakes us up, or disturbs our sleep without waking, is a problem with our sleep. Regardless of the cause so, to me, mouth puffs, if they wake you up or disturb your sleep, are a problem. OSA has a particular pernicious form of arousal - oxygen desats which not only interrupt our sleep but wreak havoc on our bodies but the other forms of arousal can wreak havoc with our unbroken rest therefore our mood and ability to deal with the world at our best. So too leaks, that wake me up but don't record as major leaks, are a problem. My neighbor's thumping bass is a problem, car alarms can be a problem, barking dogs etc. Some are within my control, others are not.

I don't sleep well without an analgesic. I think I will take more IB and hope that the benefit outweights the harm and perhaps let me get some weight off.

Ellen's observation is certainly born out in my experience. I can feel my mouth fill up with air before sleep. If I put my tongue up behind my teeth it doesn't happen.

SB

[roztom]

I just bought a white noise generator.

I live in the city and have the usual noisy cars, sirens, car alarms, barking dogs, and BIRDS, GRRR.

At dawn the Birdenburg Concerto takes flight and they ALWAYS wake me up. It seems they go at it like crazy for about a half hour and then they mellow out.

So dawn, whatever time that happens, except in the dead of winter, those little &%$#*ers sound off.

So I bought this white noise machine - it is not an electronic simulation of surf, rain or wind. It is actually a round container with a small fan and an adjustment for pitch. I used to use an oscillating fan but it blew air - who would have guessed and caused a draft. Not always the best solution.

So - the white noise machine. Birds - didn't hear them this morning - still woke up Seems the light sneaking in the cracks in the blinds might be a problem.

Before I invest in Blackout curtains I'm going to try a sleep mask and see if I can't get more sleep time. MY Bio clock seems to know when morning is but I'd like to remove all the stimulus so I have the best shot at getting 7-8 hours of actual sleep.

Tom

[Snoozin' Bluezzz]

Hey Tom,

Move up to the 16th floor. You don't hear the birds up here. Everything else but not the birds. I use to hear the same orchestra outside my bedroom window in the prior residence. It opened right on a fairly busy street close to a popular dining, drinking neighhborhood (Wrigleyville, Chicago) and I didn't have central air so I got it between the time I had to open the window and when I put the window A/C in. The birds could make an amazing ruckus!

Hang in

SB

[TerryB]

Night two was better, good seal through the night. Got over the yuk factor on the little bit that got behind the seal initially. I used the chin strap to reduce the stress on the seal, let the "goo" take care of the lips only and have the strap help with the tongue seal. seems like a good system. Ausie hose should arrive today or so. I've been having some rainout from the AC.

TerryB