New user, needing serious mask advice

[Andrew08]

Hi everyone, new to the forum as well as CPAP. Been using the machine on & off for a few months and have been losing hope because I cannot find a mask that I can use.
I have given up on the nasal masks and have tried the nasal pillows & full face masks to no avail.

Because I am a claustrophobic side sleeper mouth breather (funny but at the same time not so much!), I don' think anyone can help me but any advice would be greatly appreciated. I currently am trying the Quattro but will be returning it this week. I am thinking about trying the nasal pillows once again but do not hold much hope...


Andrew

[Sheriff Buford]

Andrew: most folks recogmend this order (below) because the masks become more intrusive as you go down the list, and it seems to be the natural progression of your mask journey (if there ever is one ). It seems that you try a certain mask fight it until you are ready to drop it on the freeway and watch (with delight) scores of vehicles running over it. Then you move down the list.

- nasal mask
- hybrid mask
- Full face mask
- oral mask (not many users)
- Total Face Mask (see mine. If you decide to try mine, I will help you along).

Sheriff

[Pugsy]

Can you normally breathe through your nose okay during the day?
Or do you have a lot of chronic congestion?
Is your mouth breathing out of necessity or habit?

Have you tried the Innomed Hybrid or ResMed Liberty? Those are a combination of nasal pillows and an interface that covers the mouth.

Exactly which masks have you tried and why did each fail? Leaks, comfort, whatever????
We can't help if we don't know what was tried and what the problem was.
What pressure are you using?
Please add your equipment to your profile. It helps us help you better.

Side sleeping can be accomplished with any mask out there. Might take a new bed pillow to allow for some place for the mask to rest without causing pressure or movement but it can be done.

[Andrew08]

Thanks for the list Sheriff. Very helpful.

Can you normally breathe through your nose okay during the day?
Or do you have a lot of chronic congestion?
Is your mouth breathing out of necessity or habit?

Have you tried the Innomed Hybrid or ResMed Liberty? Those are a combination of nasal pillows and an interface that covers the mouth.

Exactly which masks have you tried and why did each fail? Leaks, comfort, whatever????
We can't help if we don't know what was tried and what the problem was.
What pressure are you using?
Please add your equipment to your profile. It helps us help you better.

Side sleeping can be accomplished with any mask out there. Might take a new bed pillow to allow for some place for the mask to rest without causing pressure or movement but it can be done.

I can breathe through my nose ok during the day. I think breathing out of my mouth is just a choice and something I am used to. The masks I have tried are (not in any particular order):
- Mirage Activa
- Quattro
- Quattro FX
- Swift FX
- Pilairo (best so far)

My problem has been going to bed at about 930-10 and waking up at midnight not being able to get back to sleep and taking the mask off as a result. I am a mild user with a pressure of 7.

Thanks.

[Madalot]

I am a mouth breather and side sleeper as well. The ONLY mask I have ever been able to use is the Fisher & Paykle 431 Full Face Mask. My husband uses it as well.

Don't know if it would work for you, but I was in a similar boat with no mask working. I got lucky and my RT suggested the 431 fairly quickly in the journey.

[Pugsy]

What was the problem with the Pilairo? You liked it...how come it wanted to fail you?
What was the problem with the Swift FX?
The other full face masks...what was the problem? General comfort? Leaks? Pain? Fit? Just generally a PITA to use?

If you had a preference which mask would you want to work with to see if we could come up with ideas to help you make it work?

I thought I was a mouth breather too...you know I had the dry mouth and sore throat stuff prior to cpap therapy. I think most of it was habit because I normally can breathe just fine through my nose. If it's a habit and not from a physical need to mouth breathe it is possible to unlearn that habit. I can't guarantee it but it is possible...I did it and others have too.

None of us can give you a specific mask model that is guaranteed to work for you. One man's treasure is another man's trash.
Mask preference is highly individualized.
But if we know exactly what your problems were/are then maybe we can offer some ideas to try in an effort to either eliminate a mask totally or maybe make some modifications and make it work.

I sleep primarily on my side and stomach...I can do it easily with just about any nasal pillow type of mask.
I have no experience with any of the other masks but other forum members do.
Sometimes it is something as simple as a new bed pillow that allows for the mask to sort of rest without any undue pressure on it.
I use a buckwheat pillow and just move the hulls around so I have a little "nest" for my mask.
Or I can sleep on the edge of a regular pillow.
There are pillows with cutouts on the sides so the mask can rest without pressure from the bed pillow.
Works with any mask type out there.
Have you looked at those?

[Andrew08]

Thanks Madalot, I will have a look at this one.

What was the problem with the Pilairo? You liked it...how come it wanted to fail you?
What was the problem with the Swift FX?
The other full face masks...what was the problem? General comfort? Leaks? Pain? Fit? Just generally a PITA to use?

If you had a preference which mask would you want to work with to see if we could come up with ideas to help you make it work?

I thought I was a mouth breather too...you know I had the dry mouth and sore throat stuff prior to cpap therapy. I think most of it was habit because I normally can breathe just fine through my nose. If it's a habit and not from a physical need to mouth breathe it is possible to unlearn that habit. I can't guarantee it but it is possible...I did it and others have too.

None of us can give you a specific mask model that is guaranteed to work for you. One man's treasure is another man's trash.
Mask preference is highly individualized.
But if we know exactly what your problems were/are then maybe we can offer some ideas to try in an effort to either eliminate a mask totally or maybe make some modifications and make it work.

I sleep primarily on my side and stomach...I can do it easily with just about any nasal pillow type of mask.
I have no experience with any of the other masks but other forum members do.
Sometimes it is something as simple as a new bed pillow that allows for the mask to sort of rest without any undue pressure on it.
I use a buckwheat pillow and just move the hulls around so I have a little "nest" for my mask.
Or I can sleep on the edge of a regular pillow.
There are pillows with cutouts on the sides so the mask can rest without pressure from the bed pillow.
Works with any mask type out there.
Have you looked at those?

Most I just found to be PITA to use. I never thought I was a mouth breather until the air started blowing into my mouth. The Pilairo was good insofar as it was not as intrusive and less bulky on the face...but I was still opening my mouth. If I had a preference it would be nasal pillows with the option to be OK if my mouth dropped open on occasion. Thanks for the info RE: hybrid masks. I didn't even know they existed. Maybe this is the next step.

Thanks for the reply.

[cosmo]

Maybe try some anxiety pills?

[Pugsy]

If I had a preference it would be nasal pillows with the option to be OK if my mouth dropped open on occasion.

Okay.
It all depends on what happens when you drop your mouth open and how long it stays open.
Half the night with mouth open is not acceptable but 10 minutes isn't the end of the world.
Need to evaluate your leak line itself to see how much of an issue any mouth dropping open really is.

I know that sometimes my mouth drops open...normally when I end up sleeping on my back. I know this because I wake up sometimes with my mouth open and major dry mouth but when I go look at my software reports the leak line isn't nearly as horrible as I expected. Sometimes barely a blip in the leak line...sometimes I do go into large leak territory but rarely for more than 10 minutes or so. The comfort and convenience of the nasal pillows far outweighs maybe 10 minutes here or there in large leak territory.
Just because someone does some mouth breathing doesn't necessarily mean the entire night's worth of therapy is totally trashed.
Sometimes we just have to make some compromises.

Besides any sleep with a little leak is better than no sleep or sleeping without the mask and machine.

Of course if leaks disturb sleep that's a different discussion because anything that disturbs sleep is unwanted and that includes trying to make a mask work that you hate just so mouth is covered to maybe resolve a maybe large leak due to mouth breathing.

First thing to determine is just how much mouth breathing you are doing with nasal pillow mask and see if it is really that much of a negative impact on therapy..then decide if you want to try to work on it...like with a chin strap maybe.
Let's see just how bad the leaks are before you go trying a mask that you don't really want to use.
Don't know how to post an image?
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=81072&p=737779#p737779
Have you used the software to view your leak line? SleepyHead may work with your machine . I have SleepyHead info in my signature line.

Here's an example of what I am talking about...see the big plateau leak? There's a good chance I was mouth breathing at that time. I don't remember if I woke up or not but it is doubtful. That's about the worst my mouth breathing ever gets in terms of duration. I barely went over the large leak line to avoid. I didn't spend a horrible amount of time there...the rest of my night the leak was quite acceptable...some nights I don't have any exciting leaks. I am not about to try to use a full face mask (long story as to why not) just to fix an occasional mouth breathing episode. Heck, I won't even do a chin strap for this.
This is a ResCan image.

[Pugsy]

Ooops....please tell us what machine and model you are using....need to know if it gathers leak detail.

[Andrew08]

Thanks for the info. My machine is not the software type.
I have been researching the hybrid masks a bit and may look into one.

Thanks again.

[jencat824]

Andrew08,

I like the Piliaro too, but I figured out (by accident) that it may have been leaking, hence making the mouth breathing/leaking worse. I'm using the Swift LT now, it seems to have fewer leaks for me. I noticed you haven't tried the SleepWeaver Elan. That mask helped me some with mouth breathing/leaks, so it might be an option for you.

I've also recently tried the Innomed Hybrid. Although I think its a great mask, I just cannot get the pillows to seal, I must be doing something wrong, since so many here love that mask, so don't use my experience with it as a deciding factor. If you are a true mouth breather, I would recommend the Hybrid over the Liberty. The cost for the Hybrid is much better than the Liberty & I've read here somewhere that the Liberty is really an immitation of the Hybrid.

Remember that we each have different size faces, so that means what works for me may not work for you. Keep trying and you will find the mask that works best for you. The improved health you get from using the CPAP is worth some trial & error with a mask.

Good luck,
Jen

[Pugsy]

My machine is not the software type.

Bummer. This is a situation where leak data is rather critical. Until we know for sure that leaks aren't massive all night long we have to assume the worst case scenario.

[jencat824]

Since you are a fairly new user, perhaps you could get your DME to switch your machine to a fully data capable machine. Below is a link to read that will help educate you, if you want to go this route. Although most people thought I would have to buy a new machine, since I got stuck with a machine that my dr didn't like (I didn't like either, data capable, but not much data), I was able to get the DME to replace it. Its worth a try, data is really key in your therapy.

http://maskarrayed.wordpress.com/

Let us know how it goes.
Jen